There are probably more pilots at Delta that have never heard of Pinnacle than actually care about this bridge agreement. I also have a hard time believing any mature professional aviator is going to give any Pinnacle pilot a hard time regardless of how this all went down.

So.....Delta Pilots will blame Pinnacle pilots for something that ALPA national handled in a negative way?

Sounds like National dropped the ball.


Glad to see that professionalism is alive and well.

Yeah, XJ is to blame........

Bastards

No that guy is just moronic or trying to start a fire with no fuel

That is a completely different relationship that DL has with VS vs us at Pinnacle. The meat and potatoes of this bridge agreement is about Pinnacle pilots getting jobs at Delta. This agreement doesnt set any precedent with regard to int'l codeshare/joint venture partners that wasn't already present before it. It doesn't violate your scope clause at all.

Furthermore, Delta has no standing to exert the same kind of power over VS as it does with us. DL wants/needs VS because they want/need acces to Heathrow. They can't whipsaw VS with anyone else. DL doesn't need Pinnacle, per se. We are quite disposable. That being said, since we will now be a wholly owned subsidiary again, does DL not have the right to negotiate with our MEC directly?

1) Fair point. However, the game changes when they take possession of another airline and make demands on said airline's pilot wages with the threat of liquidation.

2) That is complete BS!!! And it makes no sense whatsoever as there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

3) Be that as it may, the sky isn't falling. Get better language in your own CBA if you're that concerned.

4) Some food for thought; every Pinnacle pilot's career doesn't include Delta. Consider that before you start spouting off about consequences.
And...
5) If by black cloud, you mean you stewing in your left seat because an ex Pinnacle pilot is sitting next to you, fine. Pout until your heart's content. Just dont get into a "heated argument" about it and fly past your destination airport or anything.

Purple Drank is verrrry junior. He won't be seeing a DL left seat until almost when the 9E SSP people have it available to them.

He's also permanently angry. A pile of DL people have him on their ignore list.

So remind me again how it wouldn't hurt Delta pilots if we owed 5-7 years of wages to PNCL pilots? I can't wait for the GoJet high fiving when they take your 81 900s and "The Closer" is their COO.

Enjoy Ryan. He's a good guy.

Where does it say delta pilots owe pinnacle pilots money in wages? Hittin the crack pipe kinda early tonight on the sailboat eh? :rolleyes:

I can just imagine Delta absorbing the training costs for 810 pilots to fly an airplane new to Go Jets.

Ummm yeah because the CRJ-900 from the CRJ-700 require any more than 3 bounces for Captains. Really? Really?!

That's the assertion I keep seeing. DAL is now suddenly indebted to PNCL pilots? I'm sure the Comair pilots got the same lap dance. Cuz it's so much better when the stripper is crying.

So, Bambi's goin' on about how she can make all my fantasies come true.
So I says, "Even this one I have where Jesus Christ
is jackhammering Mickey Mouse in the doo-doo hole
with a lawn dart as Garth Brooks gives birth to something
resembling a cheddar cheese log with almonds on Santa Claus's tummy-tum?"

I'm speechless. I'm not the only one to know that song after all.

You said DELTA PILOTS. Now u say DELTA. There is a difference. Please get it straight before u become Internet tough guy.

So you taking money out of my profit sharing check isn't taking money from Delta pilots? I don't care if you're pick pocketing a ramper. If you're negatively impacting our bottom line, you're negatively impacting my own.

Then fix it.

Get your scope to negate PNCL (and others). Otherwise, move on.

I'm sorry we fly crappy little planes that the Almighty Mainliners won't fly. If you can't fix your house, don't complain when we try to fix our own.

for the record, I was perfectly happy to fly my lowly Saab until I reached 65.

You mean the money you voted away twice? Everything happening here is YOUR fault and you can't accept it.

No everything that is happening at 9E is managements vault. They are the ones that put the airline in the position for any of this to even happen. You can't bash Delta pilots for doing what's in their best interest.

Oh that life were so simple. "Pinnacle" CRJ900s are a mixed fleet. Pinnacle had CRJ900s and added CRJ900 NEXTGEN aircraft when they purchased Mesaba. If I am not mistaken Pinnacle pilots cannot fly the Mesaba aircraft unless then go thru a complete check out program - simulator, ground school, etc. (Any Pinnacle pilot feel free to correct me) . I don't think 3 bounces for a GoJets 700 pilot will qualify.

This thread is getting stupid, the bottom line is Pinnacle or its successor is going to be around for at least as long as the bridge agreement.

Agree. Besides it is "drifting."

I wouldn't bash delta pilots for doing what's in their best interest, but there seems to be a lot of people that are bashing pinnacle pilots for voting in their best interests.

Not going to get an argument from me about who is to blame for the position of the airline. What I have a problem with is a Delta pilot saying we are taking money out of their pay checks or profit sharing checks which come from a contract they overwhelmingly ratified while allowing this to happen at a regional carrier. We only fly what Delta management gives us. To say that Pinnacle pilots are going to be hated if they fly at Delta or that we are taking something from a Delta pilot is just silly.

Pinnacle pilots voted for their jobs, whether justified or not, the same as a Delta pilot voted to scope out their flying. Don't tell me I'm taking money from you (not directed at you DL31), after you voted for the contract that allows this to happen.

So at Mesa when I flew all 3 RJ variants in a single day, it was just a fluke? The issues you guys have aren't an issue that any single carrier would face. The only required training is 3 landings to go from the 7 to the 9. And that's only for Captains. It's gotten that hard to go from a manual bleed panel to an automated bleed panel in the last 3 years huh?

And for the record, I'll be very happy flying your airplanes with a Delta ID someday. The product of outsourcing has nothing to do with the newest generation of Delta pilots. Had we been the majority, I assure you, you'd be a Delta pilot already.

I understand what your saying. I was a 9E P2P rep until I left at the end of September. There are way to many people out there trying to blame other groups for stuff.

9E management screwed up their company. Delta took advantage of that fact and forced the bankruptcy. In bankruptcy Delta to advantage of the bad position the pilots were in to get rid of the rest of the -200s that they needed to get rid of.

Its not Delta pilots fault that Delta management did what they did just its not 9E pilots fault for what happened to them. If a Delta pilot gives a 9E guy a hard time then that guy is a tool. Same goes the other way around.

When are we going to stop fighting and blaming each other and blame the people actually making the decisions? I hope that 9E stays around. I have a lot of friends there and I don't want to see bad things happen to them. I also fully support my friends at Delta as they try to fix the regional mess that mainline created.

Is there any official news release or viewable document anywhere that can verify the validity of this claim? It doesn't surprise me at all if it's true, but I've found nothing.

successfull? that depends....Ask DAL and i will bet they would say that they are very successful with managing the regionals(they met their goals) What pilots call successfful and what DAL calls successful are two completely differant things. Whipsaw against other regionals...against mainline...used as a tool for ac purchases and early returns.

1) Yes.

Everthing else is complete bs. To all pinnacle/mesaba/colgan pilots, completely ignore this guy. Once you are on the list you are in the club. No one puts up this type of crap. We treat every DAL pilot the same and there are no hyphenated DAL pilots.

Compared to the successful Skywest, trans states etc are run, I still stand by my statement. Yes delta does what it sees fit and doesn't have the foresight or the integrity to manage a regional correctly. Just be glad they don't run the different fleets at mainline like they manage regionals.

WTH are you talking about? Our profit sharing checks? Unless you voted on a contract differant than the one I did, it was that contract that forced the ac changes at the regionals. What did you think was going to happen? Did you think it was going to be cost neutral to meet those lofty goals of ac reductions? The company isn't going to rape contracts and destroy fleets without big costs involved all around to make it happen. Before you start pointing the finger saying "you" (pinnacle pilots) better start with "us"(Delta pilots).

The issue at 9E for mixed flying wasnt so much a safety issue as it was a pay issue. With only 16 -900s and 140 -200s, if I recall management wanted vacation, sick and all that time to be paid at -200 rates, and only get the -900 rate when flying the -900, plus, the question of sim checking events. What if you hadn't touched a -900 in 6 months (not hard, with only 16) and then go into a -900 sim for evaluation. Not that it would be hard, but still it is 9E and who knows what could happen to you. Most pilots didn't want to touch this dual qual issue because of these pay/QOL issues.

Ok u lost me. U are comparing strippers to delta owning a regional? And in another post claiming the pinnacle PILOTS are stealing your profit sharing? Do u ever sober up or do I need to find out who u are and demand a breathalyzer?

Seriously go get a nice mirror, look in it, and head to Home Depot cuz u are a tool bag.

Stop answering 9E issues when you are at VX. "Dual qual" was more than a -200/900 differences issue (we had a 3-day course to transition on the unfenced 9E certificate). The problem was "a few fold". As you mentioned, pay, is still an issue (as an loa on the original JCBA introduced dual qual), but also currency (hard to stay current, and no point when the A/C only goes through one base that is closing),the FSDO (FAA) allowing it, followed by it being impossible to remain current with the current fences. Most will argue "safety" until the pay goes up, but with basically 3 groups right now (-200, -900 fenced, -900 unfenced) the training/pairing construction/pay issues become a big problem.

In time the "current plan" is entirely a -900 fleet. That seems to bounce around a bit on the timeline, but "dual qual" with a continuing training bubble makes zero sense. Yea, the -900 has fixed issues that the -200 has, performs better, but handles much differently on T/O and landing. Unless -200's will remain (in the same domiciles as -900's) on the same POM/FOM for a good while, dual qual training and contract amendments are pointless. It's more training and qualification events, plus added pairing restrictions. The end result is more days working for the same paycheck. Other carriers (Mesa/PSA/skywest) structured training and manuals to fly the multiple derivatives within the same hub structure. In the current and future state of 9E, it's not feasible and not cost effective.

80kts to the rescue in 3...2...1

Tonight on APC... round 51 of higney vs ShyGuy! When will the butthurt end???


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vL1YW5GISS...do+granudo.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...tils/c1990.jpg

WHO WILL COME OUT VICTORIOUS???

Hey how'd you get that picture of me??

Which one? :)

On a completely unrelated subject, when and how do we get our W2s (mail or electronic)?

Unfortunately for you, the rest that know me personally,will know that neither picture fits. I did throw a punch at shyguy for chiming in, yet also commented that he was correct that the pay issues were a roadblock. In the end, it was a hope to neutralize and derail any of the quote/ignore games that have been ongoing.

After that point it had no bearing on who/what/when/where/why, but did explain the differences in philosophy of both training and certification with a fundamental impact on the theoretical possibility of an operation involving "dual qual".

80- you, yet again, tried to come to the rescue of shyguy, but were baited. Welcome to the party. Feel free to find material that you feel has any impact or response that would have any impact of the topic being discussed. Posting pictures of guys you google on the Internet does not bring anything useful to the forums that you moderate to bring pilots together to discuss issues that are currently being either deliberated or discussed.