Multi time mins disappearing?
 

With the ATP rule hitting and regionals struggling to find ATP qualified applicants are multi mins disappearing? So far I see a few that used to have stated multi mins that now have ATP mins only.

I did observe that at couple places too. However American Eagle for example shows no multi min on their web but their recruiter told me via Facbook that its 50 hour.

Anyone know if multi min at Skywest or Eagle will disappear?

Its very unlikely at SKW. I can't remember a time when OO has ever lowered the mins from 1000/100.

I don't think anyone is struggling to find qualified applicants yet, especially with a lot of PNCL and Comair pilots out there now. I was hired when mins were 1,000/100 and everyone in my new hire class still easily had ATP mins and about half of the class had turbine time.

There are definitely places struggling to find qualified applicants yet. TSA is hiring like crazy and having a hard time filling classes, for example.

They won't drop below 50 if the NPRM stands as is because that is the new minimum for a ME ATP.

the law of unintended consequences once again - quality sacrificed for quantity
And yet the whole issue was argued on the basis of quality

They could drop to perhaps 25 since you will receive more time during sim before you have your ATP ride. At eagle you get approximately 20 hours as PF and 20 hours of PM.

Ive wondered the same thing. Before, getting 1000 hours was never too difficult and so putting 100 or 200 hours of multi engine time was a great way to limit the pool. Now, it almost seems 1500 hours and 500XC is the limiting factor. With a decrease in applicants, it would make sense to remove the multi-engine requirement.

I know Eagle for one is having a hard time filling classes - I wonder why.

This is wrong. IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO RAISE THE PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This line of thinking is why there will never be a pilot shortage.

Thank you! So there is a scarce supply of a needed skill set? Fix compensation! I'm tired of minimums being lowered instead of compensation being upped. Make the sacrifice to become a pilot worth while!

This makes no sense, why would a manager want to sell their bonus short? Welcome to the regional conflict of interest.

Exactly!! They AREN'T going to raise pay. Are you kidding? They'll find other, less expensive ways to get pilots. Come on now! :rolleyes:

I get what you're saying. But those managers can cry themselves a river when their company can't staff planes while their competitor can.

If you've already got an ATP what the new ATP minimums are, are largely irrelevant. So, you could have less than 50 ME and an ATP.

You can get a single engine ATP, add on a Multi, and have less than 15 hrs multi.

Or do an initial ATP Multi with less than 50, as in my case. Heck, I have a multi engine ATP with 400 hours in airplanes.

I don't think anyone should have an ATP in a multi engine airplane with only 15 hours multi.

I know right now Piedmont is hiring guys that they will project to have 1500 by August. While it's not the most desirable place to be at, it is however a good place to get your feet wet with little multi time.

Why? If they met the regulations at the time and passed the checkride, that's all they have to do.

Heck, I've got 30 hours of multi time and an ATP multi.

It's simple, you declare bankruptcy, give yourself a bonus, and move on to the next airline. Probably best to give yourself the bonus first.

Now you got it; if anyone sees a raise, its management, back to work!

I cannot agree with this statement enough!!!
+1!!!!!!!

I got hired with 25 multi when the stated min was 50 last year...

How? Job fair? Where did you get hired?

Multi time mins disappearing?
 

I wish the media and flight schools would finally stop proffering this pilot shortage BS. There might be a pilot shortage but there is no shortage of pilots, just those not willing to work for the wages offered. Also, until the regionals got established the ATP was the standard deal. The barrier now is, of course, getting that flight time due to the economy/lack of students and parents and banks not loaning the money for flight training as they once did. Even with all that there is still no shortage of pilots. Raise the pay! There are plenty of potential pilots with the multi time and ATP's or at least ATP Mins.

There's no shortage yet because there has not yet been substantial attrition anywhere. The retirement numbers are gigantic.

I'm also not a fan of the words "Shortage" and "Pilot" being used in the same sentence but the fact remains that the industry is looking at about 1000+ retirements a year for the indefinite future.

The majors haven't really started the uptick on pilot hiring but when the retirements kick in in larger numbers they'll have to do so. That will hit the regionals very hard.

They only want 12 to a class... 20 AT MOST because we don't have classrooms big enough to fit. The reason G7 can do 60+ in a class is because their systems training is all FSI. :eek:

The shortage might be at the regional level, but with Comair down, PCL on the way, there are a lot of pilots on the street to make up for that.

Assuming the regional shortage does come, how are they going to make any money? If they can't put pilots in the front, they will go under. If they raise their pay to put pilots in the seat, they will go under. They aren't sustainable anymore. They will be forced to shut down and the majors will take back regional flying with bigger loads and less frequency.

I hope I am wrong, but I guess we will see.

They'll never go away entirely. But hopefully they will get back to the days of Feeding Into the mainline rather than replacing it.

Are people logging Level C/D sim time as multiengine time??? Is that legit?

I don't think sim time counts as anything other than sim time and you can, I believe, log approaches.

AFAIK, it is not logable as flight time, nor should it be.

I believe you can. Wasn't Mesa giving people their Multi this way back in the day of their Mesa Pilot Training Program?

I hope it counts since I received my IFR check and just gave an IFR checkride in the sim. I didn't add sim time in my total, even though the AF counts it.

I couldn't agree more.

Anyone who thinks that regional airline pilots are in for a big pay raise should pay attention to this.

I agree, except that I hope you are right.

Sim time should be logged as sim time only, not total flight time. Per the FAA it is not "flight time", which must occur in a real airplane.

In the cases where sim time can counted towards ratings, that just mean the sim counts (put it on the 8710), it does not mean you get to log sim time as real flight time.

Don't log it as dual-received, sim-time by definition is "dual" so adding it to your dual column might just create math confusion later on.

You can log sim time as IMC, ME, night, complex, etc but I would recommend not mixing those times up with your flight time since they do not apply towards aeronautical experience in all cases, and most employers want to see sim time separate from flight time. Employers don't usually care if sim time was ME, etc. IMC sim time can be useful for meeting entry-level hiring mins.

If you need to know how much ME sim time you have, you can go add it up later, or if you really want to you can make separate columns.

Bottom line, with a few exceptions you can log it any way you want but if you mix things up it will make your life harder down the road, and may create confusion when an employer is reviewing your logbook. Worst case, you could get kicked out of an interview if they think you're trying to fudge to meet hiring mins (especially turbine time).

Likewise for ME sim time, I'd think, particularly when spent doing V1 cuts, etc, in a sim for a transport category aircraft, in a Part 121 training program? Wishful thinking, perhaps?

Of course I don’t want to do anything that could jeopardize an interview, but as I've posted previously, I'm somewhat short on ME time so if it is an accepted practice, being able to include an additional 33 hrs of Level C sim time in my ME totals--as it already is for my instrument time totals--would put me over the ME hurdle for a handful of carriers.

That's sim time, not flight time. For FAA purposes it counts for some aeronautical experience requirements.

For employment purposes, they generally want a clear delineation between sim and flight time, no blurring the lines there.

They will probably give you some "extra credit" for relevant sim time, so it's certainly worth accounting for...just don't mix it up with airplane time.


I would assume, unless stated otherwise, that any airline's requirement for ME time would be real-airplane time. Do not show up for an interview thinking that sim time will put you over the top. Feel free to contact the airlines in question and ask about that, you never know. But if you get an interview after having represented yourself as having 100 ME, and it turns out that you were counting sim time to get there, you'll be shown the door for sure.

Remember everybody interviewing you had to meet the mins when they got hired, none of them will appreciate "creative" attempts to circumvent the mins.

Correct on many levels. Some regional aircraft can't handle a full boat AND an alternate. Kicking pax off for weight or denying jumpseaters is always bad. Some countries hire ab initio (Lufthansa for e.g.). Germany isn't full of "will they lower the mins?" "will they find out about my checkride failure?". Will mainline take back ALL flying? I guess that means will they fly larger aircraft to small airports and/or fly larger regional aircraft. Until then, there is probably a training website on the right that advertises a CRJ program for 4 grand that willl make you more competitive. Even better, how 'bout willflyforfood.com? Seriously? Are there any willdoelectricalwork/dentalwork/accounting/autorepair/healthcare for food sites out there? jeesh :rolleyes: