The law isnt even in effect yet, and there is alot of time left to gut it. Im hearing aviation majors will only need 1k hours. Right now they want people who will meet the 1500 hr mins by 8/1 but thats just because the airlines cant plan on the bill getting gutted.

Here's a solution to JetDocs issue. Probably far from what he/she wants to hear.

Rather than complain, go spend a year at Ameriflight or something of the like. You'll learn a ton, probably love the job, and the year will be up before you know it.

The reason we are having this dialogue in the first place, is because the 121 Regionals are so abusive to their employees at so many levels! Congress didn't raise the minimums to 1500 hours to "enhance safety" but rather to calm the traveling public's fears! Lets not be "naive", it really does come down to money!

Kids today want it NOW!!!! #aintnobodygottimefoedat :eek:

Yep, with instrument students, that's where I got a lot of XC time. I logged less air time with instrument students due to so much time in the flight training device. However, once we got to the actual flying, the flights usually took us to at least 50NM without dead time where you feel unethical.

I do realize what JetDoc is saying about about going 50 NM to do stalls. You might not get that done on every flight, especially in something slow like a 152. But if one or two flights later in their private training can integrate a touch and go 50NM away, that can add up. Ditto commercial and multi training given you should be in something that flies faster.

I don't want to act like getting 1500 hours (etc.) is easy, because it's not. Like Jamesnobrakes said, increasing minimums increases the chances that a given pilot actually is more "well rounded" than the pilot who has way less flight time. There may be cases where a 1500 hour guy would be consistently smoked by 250 hour guy when pitted head to head in a competition of flying skill, knowledge, procedure, and judgement. I'll go out on a limb and say those cases would be the exception, not the rule.

It seems Eagle and now SkyWest are doing sponsorships to help pilots get through training. Disappearing are the days of using and abusing the pilot workforce and expecting to still have a stack of resumes ready to go. I think that airlines are starting to take more seriously how they train and compensate their pilots, which is likely a result of the 1500 hour law. I believe both of those objectives were reasons for implementing the rule in the first place.

I also appreciate the Led Zeppelin fans of the forum!

While I appreciate the time put into the research, I have to disagree with some of the stuff in there.

The fractionals aren't really a pipeline to the regionals. Most of their hiring minimums require at or above ATP mins, and much more time than that is needed to be a competitive applicant.

As for the 135's, there are definitely some positions available for those who meet 135 mins, but that means pilots still need have 1200 hours. Also, some of the scheduled 135 (Cape Air for example) actually require an ATP. These places aren't going to hire FO's if they don't need to, and given the fact that now they can hire lower time pilots than the airlines, they won't be hiring many into the right seat anymore. Also, many of these places have a 1 to 2 year training contract, which means there won't that many people flowing up and out of the 135's. Assuming pilots get hired at 1200 TT, they will likely have 2000-2500+ TT before they reach the end of their training contract obligation. In other words, pilots aren't going to be able to go to a 135 with 1200 TT and build the extra 300-500 hours of experience they need to go to the airlines and move on in 6 months. Through training contracts, the number of pilots that can use 135s as a stepping stone will be restricted.

Also, is Great Lakes a 135? I thought they were 121.

At the end of the day, CFIing is still going to be the main 'pipeline' to at least 135 mins, and probably all the way through ATP mins. Other time-building opportunities are drying up as the cost of fuel and insurance rises. CFIing to 1200-1500+ hours is a ponzi scheme any way you look at it. The number of students it takes to get a CFI to ATP mins is unsustainable. Example: It takes approximately 10-12 private to CFI students to get an instructor to 1500 hours. If even only half of those students go on to be CFI's themselves, that means another 50-60 students are required to get those people hours, and the cycle continues.

So you are just advocating that CFI's making $20k per year, that are likely still paying off student loans, should have to go buy even more flight time to meet ATP mins??

I'm glad it worked out for you, but it certainly isn't an option for me or many of other CFI's I know.

Great Lakes is definitely 121. Pilots can do 120/month and 1200 /year though. I'm not 100% sure of the reason but I think it's due to the fact the B1900D is in the Commuter category?

I figured out how to pay for my flight training and was frugal AS HELL growing up. I rented reasonably priced airplanes and flew my *** off since the day I first soloed. I'm not going to apologize for that!

Also, I said IF CFIs rented, because all the CFIs I worked with did at some point (or got access to one of their student's planes for cheap). I did not say MUST rent.

By the way, my parents said they didn't owe me one dime the day after I graduated high school, so yeah, I paid for it on my own.

What else ya got?

Log what you need, fly what you can. C'mon, guys...Problem solved ;)