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ATP ICAO Restriction
Was wondering about this. From my understanding you need 1200 hrs PIC time or you get this restriction put on your ATP. You can count Your PIC time and 50% of your SIC time to get to the 1200. So for me I have 830 hrs PIC time and 612 SIC so my totals are 830+ 306=1136 which means I would need 64 more PIC hrs or 128 hrs SIC time right?
I am taking my ATP ride in a couple of weeks and Im guessing I will have that placed on my certificate. Does that restriction go away as soon as you hit the 1200 hrs PIC time or do you need to take another checkride to have it disapear? |
What are you talking about willis?
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Originally Posted by Fly782
(Post 1385561)
What are you talking about willis?
You don't have to take another checkride, just present evidence that you meet ICAO requirements, and they'll remove the limitation. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 1385567)
He's talking about 61.159(d).
You don't have to take another checkride, just present evidence that you meet ICAO requirements, and they'll remove the limitation. |
First you need to meet the ATP requirements. If you get the ICAO restriction on your ATP, once you meet the ICAO requirements, go see your FAA boys at your local FSDO and they can take care of it.
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I actually just broke 1500 hrs. The discrepency comes from not logging PIC or SIC in instances such as all training done before I got my Private or training for my multi when I couldnt log PIC time, or a time when I flew a tailwheel with an instructor but dont have my tailwheel endorsement. That time is neither PIC or SIC but still counts toward total time
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restricted in the 48 states and day vfr only. i am sure the reserve captains are going to love you.
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1385631)
restricted in the 48 states and day vfr only. i am sure the reserve captains are going to love you.
No the ICAO limitation just means he can't fly international as a Captain. It doesn't mean he can't fly as an FO...the ATP requirement is a US-only requirement, ICAO FO's still just need a commercial, and the US-only ATP still works for that. |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1385631)
restricted in the 48 states and day vfr only. i am sure the reserve captains are going to love you.
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ICAO standards doesn't require 1200 PIC, just 1200TT, AFAIK.
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1385631)
restricted in the 48 states and day vfr only. i am sure the reserve captains are going to love you.
Looks like you forgot to add a WINK ;) at the end, if that's how it was intended.... |
ATP ICAO Restriction
This is one of the most confusing rules that depends on how it is interpreted. I'm an APD at a 121 carrier. When doing this certification under our program it was understood as 1200 initially with PIC + 1/2 SIC. This was incorrect as it had to do with helicopters. It then went to the PIC + 1/2 SIC= 1500. This then was changed to being read as as long as the governing body (FAA...I believe) determines you can use all of your SIC + PIC to meet the 1500 requirement then you don't need the restriction. This is now how we do it under our program...until it changes.
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I just looked up the ICAO flight experience requirements and I dont see anything anywhere about 1200 hrs PIC or PIC/SIC combined. Does anyone know where that came from? This is what it said:
2.5.1.3 Experience 2.5.1.3.1 The applicant shall have completed not less than d) 100 hours of night flight as pilot-in-command or as copilot1 500 hours of flight time as a pilot of aeroplanes. The Licensing Authority shall determine whether experience as a pilot under instruction in a synthetic flight trainer, which it has approved, is acceptable as part of the total flight time of 1 500 hours. Credit for such experience shall be limited to a maximum of 100 hours, of which not more than 25 hours shall have been acquired in a flight procedure trainer or a basic instrument flight trainer. 2.5.1.3.1.1 The applicant shall have completed in aeroplanes not less than: a) 250 hours, either as pilot-in-command, or made up by not less than 100 hours as pilot-in-command and the necessary additional flight time as co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilot-in-command, the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command, provided that the method of supervision employed is acceptable to the Licensing Authority; b) 200 hours of cross-country flight time, of which not less than 100 hours shall be as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilotin- command, the duties and functions of a pilot-incommand, provided that the method of supervision employed is acceptable to the Licensing Authority; c) 75 hours of instrument time, of which not more than 30 hours may be instrument ground time; and |
Originally Posted by magro99
(Post 1385784)
This is one of the most confusing rules that depends on how it is interpreted. I'm an APD at a 121 carrier. When doing this certification under our program it was understood as 1200 initially with PIC + 1/2 SIC. This was incorrect as it had to do with helicopters. It then went to the PIC + 1/2 SIC= 1500. This then was changed to being read as as long as the governing body (FAA...I believe) determines you can use all of your SIC + PIC to meet the 1500 requirement then you don't need the restriction. This is now how we do it under our program...until it changes.
The 1200 was initially a helicopter requirement, then in 2009 changed to whatever Annex 1 required, which if you read it, states what Magro99 said above. |
We had some street hires on the dash back in the day with this issue. If the AGO is to act as captain, then you are limited to domestic only until you meet the pic requirements. If its the atp to comply with the new law, you are okay to act as an fo anywhere. Can someone confirm that there is a restriction placed on the certificate? Doesn't sound like the faa would care because it is an icao problem.
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I can confirm that there is a restriction placed on the certificate. I have it on mine.
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I just got my ATP 2 days ago and I dont have any ICAO restriction.. The only one I know of is the "frozen" ATP if you dont meet the full requirements (age, TT or whatnot)....
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Doesn't anyone read the regs anymore?
61.159(d) (d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,’’ as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing’’ to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section. |
Originally Posted by Twin Wasp
(Post 1386708)
Doesn't anyone read the regs anymore?
61.159(d) (d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,’’ as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing’’ to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section. That's what I said at the beginning of this thread. |
Originally Posted by rbtower2
(Post 1385617)
I actually just broke 1500 hrs. The discrepency comes from not logging PIC or SIC in instances such as all training done before I got my Private or training for my multi when I couldnt log PIC time, or a time when I flew a tailwheel with an instructor but dont have my tailwheel endorsement. That time is neither PIC or SIC but still counts toward total time
Sad but true. |
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