Student Loan reduced payment and forgiveness
 

Here are a couple of links that may be of use to people with FEDERAL student loans. One of the links allows you to apply for an income based repayment program (IBC). The second link allows you to consolidate your student loans into a direct loan, after which you may also apply for an IBC program. Some of those that consolidate may also be able to apply for the “public service loan forgiveness” (PSLF) (i.e. current members of the military, police, fire fighters etc.), which will forgive the remaining student debt after 120 on time payments. Basically, I spent all morning researching and filling mine out and my payments went from a lot, to nothing for the rest of this year, and those $0 payments count towards the 120 payments for the PSLF. Theoretically I could work at CommutAir for the next 10 years and not have to pay any of my student loans back. Well, provided there aren’t any plans in the works to give us some outstanding wages. I’m pretty sure I have the O’bama administration to thank for this. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just letting people know it’s there. I hope this enough to get people started, but feel free if you have questions or need something clarified, like I said I’ve been looking at it all morning.
https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/index.action
Direct Consolidation Loans - Welcome!!!

The public service job has to be full time so I don't believe reserves count

Well, if you're not paying your loans, that means someone else is. And that someone else is a probably a taxpayer.

I'm a taxpayer. Glad to know that I can help you pay off your flight training or whatever it is these loans were for. Its not like I need my money for my own expenses or anything, its much better used to cover you for your lack of effective financial planning.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility, paying back what you signed/said you would pay back?

Woo hoo, personal responsibility. Someone's going to have to pay for this!

Yeah, wasn't intended to start a debate, just letting some struggling pilot's know it's there. Feel free to take the high road and not take advantage of the program. BTW I'm a tax payer too.

I say blame the politicians that put the processes in place instead of the people using what means are afforded them. What Archer is describing is not an ABUSE of the system of using it as it was designed (applied for and granted) rather than what we often see in other federal entitlement programs.

As far as personal responsibility for paying off money that you borrowed.....well that type of responsibility has long been out of favor once it was figured out that the gov't would bail you out for poor financial decisions - just as they bailed out others after exhibiting HUGE failures in proper decision making/risk management.

That's fine and dandy if you're starting with all the information. Young people don't often have this and it's way to easy to say this in our 40s that they are stupid and should not have signed up for a student loan. Borrowing money is generally not the greatest way to go at something, yet we don't want to tell people that they can't achieve their dreams or be pilots, even though we know not everyone can. Lots of people "shield" the information from those that are getting these loans, the institution, the industry, etc. The "machine" is concerned with the flow of people through, not so much if they can pay their loans back. To this extent, these students and their parents are often lied to about their prospects and when told about how awesome it all will be, they happily sign up.

There is no "information out there" that exists that really tells anyone how it really is. Everyone likes to assume this exists, but it's experience that really provides this for us and one person telling a rosy story easily offsets one telling a stinky one. It's ridiculous to blame the person that didn't know better 100%, even they should be held responsible for paying back their loans as much as possible. My solution is to get the loan holders involved. Ensure they meet targets for job placement and pay. If the students don't meet these, take money from the loan holders. I bet they'd fix the problem real fast and not hand out money like candy. They'd probably have a battery of qualification criteria and they'd hold the institutions accountable to some extent by not handing out money for a poorly performing institution. This is what needs to happen if we don't want to constantly run around circles with this problem IMO. I don't think there should be any "free ride" for someone that can't pay back, every attempt should be made, but lets actually address the real problem, not try to solve the effects.

I looked at the public loan repayment (I'm in public service). When you look at the fact that you have to be in public service for 10 years, it's unlikely that you'll still have any debt left, so in a few cases that's a nice bonus of federal service, but it's unlikely to be utilized due to the requirements IMO. The other issue is that I don't think they're lessening the principle amount with the "pay based on income", so you aren't really getting "ahead", it's just allowing you some room to breathe. That's not necessarily going to be a great idea IMO, but if you have gotten yourself in a situation where it's the only option, it's nice to not have to go completely bankrupt.

I'd like to see us actually address the problem. Hold the lenders and institutions accountable for what they are putting out. Lending and borrowing isn't inherently bad, but it's money you don't have as the borrower and it is inherently risky. Due to this, just a little bit of lack of information can significantly skew decisions and unfairly punish people and there are those that will take advantage of people no matter what.

How many of those that are against letting someone reorganize their debt and take advantage of these programs (which generally are not having their loans dismissed) are against letting their airlines file bankruptcy and get bailed out? If it comes down to your job, would you rather the airline go out of business, or screw over some of it's lenders? I know there are plenty from the major-airline side working for airlines that would scream bloody murder if someone was trying to dismiss their loans and obligations, yet they work for companies that do just that.

I'm just not for "well, make them pay it back and throw them in jail and sooner or later everyone will figure it out and stop taking out these loans". No way, someone will always come along to take advantage of the situation and convince new uninformed people to take out the loans. Only if the lenders lose enough money would they be inclined to actually do something about it.

Basically that is what IBC does, gives you room to breath, so you don't have to decide between food or paying your loans. And there is an end in sight, as I believe after 25 years you are done.

There is no way being an airline pilot would count as a public service.

The income based repaymwnt is fine, but if you know anythig at all about interest rates or compounding interest they are going to get their money wvwntually. Don't come *****ing when you have very high payments near the end of your payment cycles to make up for the lower payment initally.

Just pay off your damn loans like a responsible individual. Don't go saying you cant afford it because all the regionals pay about the same and you knew you would have to go that for some time.

So I guess none of the naysayers here has ever had a subsidized college loan, pell grant etc... Not to mention the subsidized FAA services that most GA aircraft enjoy. Thank goodness we work in an industry that completely pays for itself otherwise we would be freeloaders just like the OP.

I wasn't saying being a pilot counts, only military service, and I believe tha has t be full time.

If you pay your interest, or if you qualify, the government pays your interest, you are not going to have the high payments at the end, as I believe after 25 years the rest is forgiven.

I am a responsible individual, and I will say I can't afford my loans right now, because I can't. And I'm certainly not going to shell out money I don't have to keep you happy.

"Then you shouldn't have borrowed the money" you'll say. Well maybe, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna do what I have to to put food on the table.

Again didn't mean to start a debate, just letting people know what is out there. By all means, feel free to take the high road.

No, I never had a subsidized college loan or pell grant. And the last time I checked GA airplanes run on gas which is taxed.

Be a responsible adult and pay back what you borrowed! The problem is most people don't want to live off the bare minimums. Most people could move back in with their parents, get rid of the cell phone, sell the gar and buy a POS, get rid of the gym membership, your subscriptions to magazines and Netflix, stop eating out and start eating rice and beans, get rid of your cable, etc. Why make hard decisions and do what needs to be done to meet your obligations when you can keep all the "extra" goodies and have someone else foot your bill

And no jamesnobrakes, I'm not in my 40s and don't remember how it was, I'm in my late 20s. I didn't take out loans, and the only debt in my name is my house. That's the good thing about not making stupid financial decisions, you don't find yourself backed into a corner when people start asking for their money back. But why should I complain when I did the right thing and have to pay for everyone else's mistakes.

Filler....

The "public service loan forgiveness" has been around for at least 15 years. It only applies to military, fire fighters, police, and teachers I think. I was a police officer for 8 years before becoming a pilot and one of my federal loans was forgiven over a 5 year period on a pro-rated basis. I don't know what administration started it but it sure did help. You think regional F/O's are paid poorly? Try being a beat cop in the south. If anybody deserves a little break, I think those who serve their community should be the one getting it.

Well played, Sir!

Some of us on this forum forget hundreds of millions of dollars in aid (tax payers’ money) offered to the major airlines in the aftermath of 9/11. Funny, you won’t hear any of the pilots from those airlines objecting to financial bail out of such airlines!

Good touch on subsidized college loans and Pell Grants! A certain armed forces ‘bill’ comes to mind too.

Personally, if we can bail out private businesses (GM, Ford, Bank of America, etc.), for hundreds of billions of dollars; then I, as a taxpayer, have no issue helping those who got college education and skills. Not at all!

And what do you make per year? $35,000? So at best 1/1000th of a penny of your taxes might go to this. Turn off Glenn Beck and Hannity. You aren't paying for anyone.

Congrats on making all the right decisions. But I'm not moving back in with my parents for 25 years, nor am I going to live on a diet of rice and beans or Ramen noodles for 25 years. Sure I'll get rid of netflix, there's 9.99 a month. Cellphone, need it for work. Cable? don't have it. Internet? I kind of need that.

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Can you please explain how you were able to pay for your own flight training? Were you in military?

A lot of hard work and having a job since I was 13.

Yeah B.S. He called mom and dad.

You don't have to live with parents and live on a rice and beans diet for 25 years unless you think your income will never increase over that 25 year period. It's a temporary thing to get your financial house in order and to get back on your feet. But I guess being responsible and making hard decisions is just asking too much. Way to be a man and resorting to name calling just because I said something you didn't want to hear. Welcome to the real word where the truth can suck and you can get your feelings hurt.

Internet tough guy that thinks he knows everything about me. :rolleyes:

For those who are so judgemental and smug (aka "tool"), remember that karma is indeed a *****. Life has a funny way of leveling the playing field and when you least expect it a big 'ol 2x4 will smack you in the back of the head.

I love how some think they have it all figured out----when in reality they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth or married someone who makes more money than they do and they live off of that.

Last I checked my wife's paycheck was smaller than mine, and she will be quitting when we have another child to stay home with the kids. There goes that idea. :rolleyes:

Well said!

Why thank you, sir!

BTW I LOVE your user name.....why didn't I think of it??!! ;)

Give it up man. Judging others on your high-horse doesn't earn you respect.

I saved money and paid for my PPL in cash. I used a student loan to pay for the rest of my ratings in 2010, which came to about 42k. My payment is $372 per month. I'm doing better now, but even when I was making 25k a year as a line guy/cfi I had my own apartment and I could still make my payments on time. It would not be worth it if I was going to make 25k a year for the rest of my life, but pinching pennies for a year or two isn't so bad.

You are correct, it doesn't apply to private service, only public (firefighter).

But 99% of the pilots out there did NOT know or think they'd be flying for regionals for 10 years and I'd be the majority of them had no idea they'd be earning 20K/yr when they started. You say "do your research", but it's only relatively recently that we've had internet and the ability to look some of these things up, and even then it's not really the "experience" that leads us to question the decision, especially when everyone else around us is telling it's "cyclical" and "you're getting on at a great time, when it's about to turn around!". I've seen plenty of people on this site ripping apart some columnist that has published an article saying that airline pilots make an average of $120,000/yr, but that article is read by young impressionable minds that see=$$$. How does such a person know to separate the truth from the lies? Which ones are just small lies? Which ones are bending the truth? Which ones are blatantly not true? Most of us have experience to look back on to know this. Most people starting out do not.

I think there's some general lack of understanding of human nature and the reality of educational loans. On the one hand, you're saying that people should be fundamentally "good" and pay back their loans, but on the other hand we have the evidence that they are not and are not to some extent. So which is it? If we just yell louder to "pay back your loans" that's going to magically generate the revenue? How is that going to stop it from happening again?

Again, this information is for people that need it. If you don't need it great, good job, good for you, move on. You don't know my situation and who I'm responsible for. Christ you act like I have 50K laying around but I'm just deciding not to pay.

No, you had to of had help from mom and dad you judgmental tool!;)

Good for you. What would you do to those that can't and aren't as smart and strong as you? Send them to prison? Labor camps? Death?

1/1000th of a penny X
every program like this X
300+ million americans =
a lot of money.

Yes, that's what I said I wanted. :rolleyes:

Well what is it that you want? How can you make money where there is none? When you find out, I'd like to know for sure, so I can cash in!

Mod note:

Well in true APC fashion - we took a post about programs and turned it into a subject full of name-calling, insults, flamebaiting, and eventually personal threats (which will NOT be tolerated on APC btw and WILL result in the offender being banned)

Yes, these people are obviously asking for a free ride. They've never worked a day in their life and they're sitting around on an island and sipping margaritas. It's ok to bail out business, because that's jobs, but when it comes to individual families and people, screw em!

Sorry, I see that accountability needs to be maintained at multiple levels, not just the individual level. You would be ok with your family being lied to and then extorted out of money? It's all legit as long as they signed some piece of paper somewhere? Sorry, the world is a little more complicated than that and there ARE people out there trying to take advantage of others and simply further their own standings by trampling on the rights of others. It's funny how no one wants to really get at the problems and causes, they just want to try and solve the problem from the back end, and when they put their finger in the hole, another leak springs in another place. Good luck with that.

I'd like to bring back debtors' prisons.

Moral Hazard. It's alive and well, my friends.

For those who are reading these posts and thinking of perusing a career in the flight deck:

To make it to a major airline, you will need a bachelor degree of some sort. That can be accomplished on the cheap (community college transfer to four-year, smart class/major planning, etc.) or you can blow you cash at a private school on the five-year plan partying three days a week in the frat or sorority.

Add to that your pilot certificates. Again, there are expensive options and paths that offer the least financial resistance. You'll need at least your commercial multi and your CFI.

Assuming you graduate in four years with your commercial multi and CFI, you'll probably instruct, among other things, for a few years before you get your first airline or 135 gig. While building time and the resume, you won't make a ton of money. Same for the first year at the airlines or a decent 135 shop...you won't be rolling in the dough. Plan accordingly, and that brings me to the statement I made at the beginning of the post.

Your student loans don't know your ability to repay them. They won't guarantee on the investment you have put fourth. The lenders don't examine your career plans when you take the loans out. Industry hiccups (age 65) and the economy (derivative securities, anyone?) can flatten out the demand for pilots overnight, and that will prolong career advancement.

This career isn't worth going into six-figure debt over. That debt isn't sustainable while making $20 to $30K a year as a CFI or first-year FO. Even once you move up the pay scales, paying off that amount of debt is going to take a hit against other financial moves you'll want to make. Some of us have made our bed in the middle of an ocean of debt; some of us were lucky, or maybe smart, and worked out a plan to keep stuff on the cheap and made it work.

Be wise. Really think about how you're going to make this all work financially, and don't plan on some government loan repayment loophole working to make it all manageable down the road.