Eagle or Express Jet Opinions Please
 

Question for the peanut gallery...I have recently been offered a job at Eagle and Express Jet. CRJ with Express, no idea with Eagle, but I'm assuming standard. Retiring Military guy, waiting like most for the robust mainline hiring, but wanted to have some recency. I've read through tons of the forum post(s) and have a very difficult time discerning the reality at both. Would like feedback on which regional would be a better choice, given that I have an opportunity to choose. Thanks!

Where do you live?

Wichita Falls, just north of DFW by about 1.5hrs. This has been a consideration. Express Jet folks stated I'd have a good shot at domiciling out of DFW, but nothing from the Eagle folks on this. However, I'd go through school in DFW (close to home) vs Atlanta with Express. Thoughts?

One thing to consider, that has not gotten much attention, is that if you go to a regional owned by mainline, will that discourage a mainline from interviewing you based on a double training event and the fact regionals are having a harder time filling classes? AMR will already be flowing guys from the top of Eagle's list to mainline, so do they really want to pluck guys off the bottom making it even harder to keep Eagle staffed?

There may be no merit to this idea, or it may be a curse if you want American. I think Pinnacle pilots are going to have that problem with respect to Delta. There will be tens of thousands of qualified pilots to choose from, so why make it harder and cost more by hiring guys from the other company they own.

There is really no history to back this up, but I think we are in uncharted territory in the U.S. industry with all the consolidations, regional airline expansion and lack of CFIs and pilots willing to take the poverty level regional jobs.

Good luck!!

For the record I didn't start this one!

To the OP: the previous poster is asking the right question: go where it's possible to have no commute, or a very little one if possible. With your military background it's possible that you won't be in the regionals long enough to deal with their long term realities.

Secondly, make sure you're in contact with anyone from your military career, even from way back when you were a 2Lt, that you might have even possibly liked at one time, and more importantly liked you. Whatever contacts you can generate have the potential to be golden.

Lastly, read this article and take the advice to heart.

Good luck.

In that case either would be fine. I wouldn't sweat the training location; its short enough in your overall career that it shouldn't override a more rational decision.

The question about who owns the regional is a valid one, but like the poster said there's not enough data out there to justify a decision based on that. The reality is that you'll apply to everyone you want to work for and then take the first class date.

Your next step is to find out the reserve rules for each carrier and figure out if you could sit reserve at home, i.e. a 2 hour vs 3 hour callout. If the latter you could sit at home until called then drive in. If the former you place yourself in a little more risk with regard to making your showtime.

Thanks Tallflyer, read that post about 2 dozen times. I took Albie's course and it was gold. I've gained over 3000 hrs, most PIC (F-16's), but the airline thing is entirely different and I recognize that early (trainable). I've applied at all the mainlines hiring, or thinking about hiring, but my recency of experience is hurting as I've been commanding a ground based unit on an Army Post that didn't allow me to fly "professionally." Therefore the regionals seemed like a logical way to get back into flying immediately. Thanks again for the input!

Any time. I have a dear friend who's a recently separated C-130 IP so I've been dealing with the same questions from her.

If you don't already have it a good resource for the civilian world is "Everything Explained for the Professional Pilot." It's also available as an iPad app.

Tall flyer...if it is the one from Lengel, I've read that front to back and you're right it is absolutely essential. I would say mandatory reading for military guys retiring as we are complete noobs on then ways of 121 flying and the entire Airline thing. I will say that my two interviews were distinctively different. Eagle was far more professional and relaxed, very polished, inviting with no doubt about the company's procedures and what they were looking for. Eagle seemed like an airline. The express jet team, seemed a little more like a somewhat organized burger king. Very no thrills, take your test, answer this question go get fingerprinted. While I'm sure this doesn't reflect the pilots flying the line at Express, after seeing both HR/Pilot hiring staffs, express has a little work to do in that department.

Interesting. I've only interviewed at Air Wisconsin thus far and thought they were very professional.

And yes, I'm referring to the book by Lengel. There are lots of other books by the FAA that can be downloaded as PDFs for free that would make good references as well.

On a different note as a noob to airline flying (and I am as well) you might consider Flying the Line, Vols 1&2 by Hopkins and Hard Landing by Petzinger. Both are histories of the profession from different perspectives, and the events they cover precede 9/11 but they're very good at covering the back stories of events that still affect us as pilots today.

Can some of you strangers give me advice about what I should do about my life? What should I eat today? Should I take a shower? I was thinking about getting a new phone do you guys think thats a good idea or a bad idea?

There are thousands of thread about how miserable people are at each airline. As well as people who are happy. Just go to one. Asking someone about what to do with your life is dumb. Are people unable to make their own decisions these days? No one can make a decision of where you should work....

Rant over.

:cool:STANDING OVATIOON!! :D:eek:

Why don't you go ask the OP about the results of undertaking a military mission using poor or incomplete intel. I bet he could give you an earful.

I don't think the question the OP is asking is whether or not he should be an airline pilot. It's pretty clear that's where he's headed. If you read what he's saying he's recognizing the military is different from civilian aviation and he's educating himself on the differences, including specifics to each carrier that could directly impact his QOL. Although I'm not prior service I've been doing the exact same thing lately.

ITS GOOD TO HAVE ALL THE AVAILABLE INFO before making the final decission .. is thought..

Touche Felt4 and I will certainly be more than capable of making a decision. Having been in 5 conflicts, with multiple SAMs being shot a me, bombing and Air to Air Missions, Close Air Support, global operations into and out of austere fields, night combat on NVG's and being a mission commander of dozens of combat aircraft in the air at the same time, making critical life and death decisions, I'm certain I'll be fine in making a decision for my family. However, I never went into any battle without as much intel from all of the support agencies available. That is how I treat these forums...a support agency. I have some very inside sources that are concerned whether Eagle will exist even six months from now. Does flying for Eagle hurt chances of flying with AA (right now I have opinions from some very senior folks that say no) and words that AA is going to start hiring in July/August. Bottom line, this is simply a fact finding Q&A, if you have something constructive, I'm all ears otherwise...thank you for your assistance.

If this thread bothers you, why don't you just ignore it? Honestly, a couple of guys having a polite conversation irritates you? Were you just looking for something to bash today but were unable to find a current GoJet thread? GEEZE..... Rant over

And to the OP, thank you for your service especially on this Memorial Day weekend!

Vyper,
Where do you play to live long-term? Basically I think it is worth going wherever you want to live so that you do not commute. That being said most of the junior domiciles are places that you don't want to be, i.e. east coast around NYC, Chicago, or other big cities. Wichi falls isn't paradise, and the drive to DFW is a long one.

SkyWest is getting jets, it might allow you to get directly into a line without having to commute to reserve. Houston will probably be doable right out of class but really what you need is good info on who will be growing fast. Have you ever considered SPIRIT? They have a DFW domicile and would probably overlook the recency issues as long as you got current. I think that might be a good place for a guy with your resume. They have a job fair in Las Vegas on July 20. The job fair is the best way to get hired at Spirit. Most of the initial training is home study, and you will be put right into an Airbus 319.

PM me for more info. I have an ex military buddy who works there that would probably be willing to chat with you about it.

Someone is on her period.

vyperdriver, I did a lot of research like you as I am in a similar position, except I separated instead of retiring. I took the XJT offer and didn't even bother to go to my Eagle interview since XJT offered me a job on the spot. In reality I don't think which regional matters as I am hoping not to be there very long. I chose XJT and the CRJ hoping to get a DFW basing as that is a short commute for me. Unless something has changed in the past week or so June 17th is the last CRJ class for a while at XJT. I just decided it didn't matter which regional because I don't plan on being there that long. I am also trying to get back in via the guard/reserve too. Good luck as we need it!

So if you have "very inside" info that says Eagle may not be around in 6 months, why would you even consider going there? As a pilot and military person, you very well that even the best laid plans don't always work out. For 18 years, between the military and the civilian aviation world, I had lots of plans that didn't work out and most were due to outside factors. :(

Good Point Palmtree,

As Eagle training is closer to home, and my initial plans are hoping that in 6 months one of the mainlines would give me a shot, I didn't see a significant issue going either way. It made sense to enlist the perspective, knowledge and opinions of those doing the job so I would make a better choice. It may or not be the case, but it seems that I'm going to burn a bridge with one of these regionals, I'm just trying to gather the information so I burn the correct bridge.

take the one with no commute, if any. Although that could change. Otherwise, take the one that sux now, it will be the better airline in 5 years. That's how this whole regional game works.

Let me go back.

Thank you for your service. I have the the most respect for the duty you do and continue to do.

Back to my point. Why start another thread about what so and so should do with their choices. Theres a new one every week? You said you have read the threads. You interviewed at both with the intentions of going to one. If you have read the threads you can make a valued opinion for yourself. There is a lot of information on here that starting a thread about "what should I do" leads to he said she said about how great one airline is vs. how terrible the next is. I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully someone on here doesn't sway you in the wrong direction.

OK, here's another question on topic. For us non-current retiring mil guys, if we have the opportunity to go with Eagle, does anyone have the terms of the contract for the 5K signing bonus? If we were to get picked up by a major prior to two years, can we back out of it, and if so, what is the cost?

Droopy

I am pretty sure if you leave the first year you have to pay all of it back and after one year it is prorated.

How will AMR replace 240+ airplanes worth of flying in six months? Will AMR just kick 3000 pilots to the street in six months?

Those contracts are tough to enforce but maybe Eagle hamstrings ya.If you get hired by a major in a year, who cares if eagle cries about a contract.

Isn't that what Delta did to Comair:eek:

good point- i wouldnt touch eagle now

The lack of understanding in this thread is incredible. They did it over a decade to comair. Eagle is addressing the issues that ultimately doomed comair like longevity. Eagle isn't going anywhere for some time, they have no choice but to shrink eagle, soly off the massive attrition to aa that's just started.

Exactly why being a well qualified junior pilot at Eagle may be a curse if you want a job with American mainline!:eek: They already have to take pilots from the top, why would they want to increase the rate of attrition taking non flows also. Hey Vyper, I'm sure you may have some good contacts that are very senior, but unless they are in the senior management or HR, they only think they know what is going to happen. Pilots are wrong most of the time when they tell you what is going to happen to/with an airline, no fault of their own. :eek: I'm not trying to tell you what's going to happen with, I'm just trying to point out some more possibilities.

Also a "shrinking" airline in my experience means NO quality of life improvements for the junior pilots for a loooooong time. :(

What am I lacking to understand? How about you break down that decade of dismantling for me.

Comair had 20% of the airframes Eagle has, delta started dismantling Comair years before shutdown and it was during different times as well. Not saying Eagle can't be shut down but is a total different situation and time.

Express Jet in a heartbeat. Why?
1.No fleet plan.
2.Parking planes (shrink).
3.More concessions soon.

A decade? Comair was at its largest in 2007-2008 and shut their doors in 2012. The last time I checked, that is not a decade.

When Comair was in full swing they only had 47 airframes? That's odd because I remember there being a few more than that when I was there.

Ok fellas...this is the kind of discussions I was looking for. Regardless of what some of my "contacts" have said, I am equally suspicious as it seems to me no one truly knows until everyone knows what happens in the airlines. A lot of conjecture and guessing but some of the points brought out on this thread are what I was looking for. For example...If I were an Eagle Pilot, why would I not be concerned that Express Jet is beginning to fly Eagle Lines out of DFW. Some other regional, forgive me I don't recall the name, is flying lines for Eagle out of Detroit or somewhere like that. Why would I not, if I were an Eagle flyer, be concerned that some other company with some other companies pilots were flying jets with our passengers out of our domicile? It seems to me, that pre bankruptcy, AMR was attempting to sell off Eagle, although I may be inaccurate on that, but I seem to recall that. Why would AMR simply not sell off Eagle to Express Jet or Skywest and have them absorb operations? Express Jet stated at our interview that they were a combined company (operating separately) with Skywest and that together they represented a national carrier as large as Southwest. Does that give them the political clout and funding to absorb Eagle? While that may not put 3000 pilots on the street, it would have the effect of closing down Eagle as it exists currently. Like I mentioned, I'm totally a novice at this, I'm simply trying to understand the business.

And Rah is in the mix too-theyre opening an ORD base soon. Even if Eagle stays, which it prob will, whats the movement gonna look like even if AA takes guys? Good luck to you and all the Eagle guys- I hope it works out.

I was referring to the comment of eagle being shut down just like comair was, Comair on its last year or so had less than 50 airframes. You are absolutely correct that Comair at one point had hundreds of Rjs. And what was being said about Comair being shut down over a decade, I believe he is referring from strike to actual shutdown.

People need to stop comparing carriers to Comair. Pinnacle and Eagle are in total different situations than Comair. We could end up shut down but the same can be said to any regional out there. Comair showed us how you can grow just to be dismantled.

I had just typed a large response describing the regionals over the last 10 years and my browser crashed on the iPad. How fitting. But long story shirt is that AMR is just doing today what the others have already done. The American feed was much smaller and with smaller airplanes and they are catching up. American had virtually all flying done with one carrier and they are spreading the love. Over the last 10 years we have seen carriers shrink and grow, the regional that is good today suck tomorrow. Study up on SCOPE at the mainlines and you will see how between Delta and United you will see 300+ airplanes being parked (50) seaters. This will take place over the next 2 1/2 years. The question is who will get airframes and who will park airframes, we already saw SKW secure some ejets but these ate not growth since SKW holdings operates more than 450 airplanes for United alone. They could be growth for Skywest airlines but will mean that it will park 50 seaters at Expressjet. Delta will be parking 50 seaters as well but now Pinnacle is the cheapest, wholly owned and has the 50 seaters with the least amount of cycles. Will they park pinnacle or will they park EXJ (Asa). Eagle has 245 jets, mostly 50 seaters will we see replacements for theses, we are being told yes but no orde in the books and now threatened for concessions. Rah has many ejets but what will happen to the 50 seaters? Rah has an unhealthy balance sheet mainly due to frontier. How about the contract, is no secret rah grew because they underbid. GoJet halted hiring and downgrades all of a sudden. The regional industry is very fluid, eagle is in bankruptcy shrinking and hiring. Why, ask management. Go somewhere where you spend an extended period of time, minimize the commute and don't look back but keep your SA because you might have to make a lateral move. No regional is safe. SKW has been a great regional for years but they are having to compete for larger aircraft but less total airframes, how will this play out remains to bee seen. They are the last man standing sort of speak.