Instructing vs. Regionals
 

So we already know that some senior guys at the regionals have the golden handcuffs and can't / won't take the first year pay cut to move on to the majors.
We are now starting to see more flight schools offer pay which far exceeds the regional's year one pay. How many instructors are willing to take a $10,000 pay cut to sit reserve in ORD?

This add form the orange web site.

"CFI in Pensacola FL. Preference will be given to CFII but will consider all applicants. Salary $32,000."

Newsflash: You won't always be on first year pay. And you won't always be on reserve in ORD.

That said, some CFIs might have the golden handcuffs called student loans. In any case, except in certain circumstances (independent CFI with a good book of business) your 5 year earnings at a regional will be much better than as a CFI with more time off, travel, etc.

Added to that: not many airlines beyond the regionals hiring CFIs. Bottom line: think about your career as a whole, not your next paycheck.

If you want to go airline, and have always wanted a career in it....GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seniority is everything and all your doing is possibly setting yourself to be furloughed one day when your airline lays off 80 guys, and you were the 80th because you hemmed and hawed an extra class date that had you taken you would have been 79th and not furloughed. Lines, reserve, upgrade time..... GO.

Also counter to what others think, I as many others did took a pay cut for our first regional jobs. instructors: Don't think that "sitting reserve in ORD" is something to be embarrassed about. in the end of the day, that person has worldwide free travel, flies for an airline, and is closer to landing a major job than an instructor is no matter how big the instructor's ego is.

In 1998, when I was making $2200 a month instructing, ALL of the regionals paid less for FOs. I asked my fellow instructors basically the same question, "Why should we take a pay cut?" The answer? "The regionals are a quicker path to the majors." Well, maybe for those who chose the right company. I will say that going 135, who paid more than regionals, did not lead to a major for me. YMMV.

Oh, and the sitting reserve in XYZ issue: I would rather be at a second tier company with no commute than a first tier with a crappy commute. I would even look at a third tier if they have a stable (whatever that means) base in your back yard. But that is just me.

The best indicator of someone that has no big picture concept of a career is they get bent out of shape over year 1 pay.

What does CFIing do for an airline career beyond gaining the experience to get hired by a regional airline? Answer: nada.

I made more than $32,000 on first year pay without working any overtime, spent minimal time on reserve and had an extra week off per month compared to the average CFI. (includes 5k bonus and per diem)

135 rarely leads to a major...

Newsflash! Why bother going to the regionals at all? There are plenty of right seat vacancies for Citations, King Airs etc who need a gear swinger. Could contract out on the side while you instruct.

Not true Mr Mustache. I know plenty of guys who instructed, went to Ameriflight, and now fly for Allegiant, Southwest and JetBlue. Not one single hour in the Barbie jet.

Your example is rare. The other side of the spectrum, Great Lakes starts out at $16 an hour, at a 75 hour guarantee that's $14,400 a year base.

I started at 9E in late 2003 and made 26k first year on 20 dollars an hour pay. The regionals staff so tight that most pilots make well above guarantee.

Or you could have more than 4-5 days off, a schedule, free travel, etc.
While that's possible, again, not everyone wants to work 6 days a week with most of that spent in a hotel room in the middle of nowhere. And I dare say that percentage wise there's more former regional guys at majors than single pilot freight dudes.
Then don't go to work for Lakes. Base pay at SkyWest is just shy of 20K, not counting per diem. Second year is 28K if you stay on the Brasilia.

Pinnacle staff tight. I have friends at SkyWest still on reserve who were hired a year ago. 60 hours a month credit during training at $22, then 75 hour guarantee.
Tough to swallow after earning almost double that bashing the pattern.

They also haven't hired much since then. That's about to change.

The last year has been a lot of waist tightening at the regionals. As the 50 seat fleets are pared down to more reasonable sizes, that will continue for a bit, but not all that much longer.

QUOTE "Or you could have more than 4-5 days off, a schedule, free travel, etc."

Free travel? Good luck with that one. Since all the mergers, even revenue passengers get bumped. Non-rev travel is all but worthless now.
Ameriflight has CASS, pays more than a regional, and turbine PIC after 6 month in the chieftain.

QUOTE "Then don't go to work for Lakes. Base pay at SkyWest is just shy of 20K, not counting per diem. Second year is 28K if you stay on the Brasilia."

Actually, training at SkyWest is paid at 60 hours a month at $22 an hour with no per diem. So year one base pay is around $19,000.

Instructor gig over 2 years is $64,000. SkyWest on the brasillia over 2 years is $47,000.

A year instructing followed by a year at Amflight would earn you around $60,000 and get you some turbine PIC on your resume.

I was recently at a UPS feeder and quite frankly we rarely had the time to use our jumpseat privileges anyway. In any case, using UPS and SWA I could get anywhere I wanted to and rarely got bumped. You're right that non-rev would be more difficult, but while Amflight has agreements only with SWA, any regional is going to have agreements with EVERYONE.

Great, you'll take a pay hit to go to SkyWest. But what about 2nd year and beyond?

If your overriding priority in life is your next paycheck and not the next 5+ years then by all means enjoy life in the pattern.

Or get to a good regional and enjoy having a life that doesn't include "RIGHT RUDDER!" and has 15 days off a month. Sure, it won't happen right out of IOE, but most likely it will happen.

Gotta agree with that. Nothing beats making a decent living, a line with 14-18 days off, 90+ hours of credit not even counting an open time trip paid at a premium, know my schedule, and have off days strung from 1-10+ days in a row, however I want to bid and trade my stuff around.

Sure, wont happen out of IOE, but depending on the carrier it wont be long after. And being able to kick back at FL410 at 500 kts.... makes you forget that maybe you made the same amount sweating in a Cessna with a student who's mommy and daddy thinks would make a great pilot and future APC troll. (insert sarcasm there)

Yea id rather work at republic rather than instruct...oh wait I do.:eek:

My point to this thread is that there are other options out there. If your objective is to get to the majors ASAP, a regional might not necessarily be the quickest way. Sure, most major pilots come from the regionals, but there are alternatives for those who think outside the box.

If I were to start out all over again I might have done things differently.

What a tool! Have you ever heard of someone going from instructing in a 172 to flying for Delta? You have to start out somewhere to make the big bucks. That is like staying in the Farm leagues instead of going to the majors just because you don't want to sit on the bench for a few games.

What a tool? Why don't you pull your head out of your fart pipe and look at your options. Instructor to freight to charter to majors within 5 years. Yes its possible and it would be more lucrative.

Having done a lot of "outside the box" in my career I'm ready for a schedule and time off. The grass is always greener, etc.
While you have a decent point it was kinda overshadowed by your trip back to middle school. Just sayin'.
Yes, it's possible, but probable? Lots of 135 and 91 guys out there who have given up on that scene to go do 121 to either improve their resume or just have a life.

And while it "could" be more lucrative, it could also be the 7th circle of hell. Think there's bad regionals out there? There are far more bad charter outfits. Grass is always greener, etc.

Oh, and way to stoop to his level. Good save.

I find it amusing that so many guys come on here complaining about their life at the regionals, then when someone offers a possible alternative they get called a tool.
amazing.

And all I'm saying is I've done the alternative and I'd rather the regionals where at least we have the time off and flexibility to complain about the regionals. :D

while money cant buy happiness, i'd rather be crying in an air conditioned jet in august.....

So many guys here complaining on APC you sound worse than females... I don't write on here often, I'd rather just be on the outside looking in. SOS day in and day out on the forums..

Got a problem? Make change... Don't take no for an answer. Go to your union representatives. Instead of you complaining that your back is against the wall, do what needs to be done to have these higher up's realize what their doing is wrong and actually effecting YOU the "working" people and blood lifeline to the company.

And I know what a lot of you are saying, "easier said than done" Well just like you having to start from the bottom to get to where you want to be, you gotta start somewhere. Quit the whining man up, and do something about the situation.I swear my 6 year old niece doesn't complain as much as some of the people on here do.

I hope the CFIs are smart enough to look beyond next year to figure out where they will be in 5 or 10 years if they stay a CFI vs going to a regional. Do your home work. Virtually every regional pilot who has a good work history and clean training record will get hired by the majors. Compare the average days off and career pay of a major, or regional, pilot to that of a career CFI and you have your answer.

The quickest way to a major is military experience. The next quickest way is a regional pilot. Sure, other options are possible but rare, don't gamble this opportunity away.

This. I was instrumental in making several changes at the place I CFIed. You can let people run all over you or you can put your foot down. Turns out you can earn a pretty good living doing that with lots of opportunities to fly different aircraft and paths to solid careers. Unfortunately the SJS keeps trying to undercut everything though and there's little reason for any operation to treat employees as if they are a scare resource. Point though is you really can make a change, it takes imagination and determination. It's not necessarily easy, but it's possible. Thinking about how many people got into this job so they could have 15 days off a month and earn executive salaries by flying an airplane, it may be probable that there is little motivation to fix anything...

I don't think anyone would consider being a career CFI. I know I was done with it when I hit 1,000 hours dual given. With the new ATP rule though, a CFI might have other options than the regionals. As far as prospects and job security, just ask the 8 year Comair F.O.s who got kicked to the street and start at the bottom of the regional pile all over again. There are risks either way I guess.
Military is appealing to the majors, but not a fast way to build time.

The hurt has just started!

Below the $32,000 a year CFI gig, there was a king air captain position, air ambulance for $72,000 a year plus benefits. How about instructing year 1 for $32,000, Amflight year 2 for similar pay, weekends off, turbine PIC and CASS, take the King Air gig for a couple of years STARTING pay $72,000 with 7 days on, 7 off, then apply to the majors. Compare that to a typical first 5 years at a regional.
ATP flight school don't advertise this option on their web site though do they?

Probably because single pilot King Air Capts aren't nearly as competitive for majors as regional FOs. Not saying they can't and your scenario is impossible, but it's not probable. Your hypothetical AmFlight pilot would be much better off going somewhere like USA Jet where he can get some jet time on a DC-9. That kind of experience will set him apart for the crowd far more than some Air Ambo gig will. You should also consider that some Ambo gigs only fly 200 hours a year.

I'm not trying to undermine your post but I have spoken with pilots who have tried to do just that and ended up eventually succumbing to the regionals. Like others have said I'm sure its been done before but it doesn't seem very common or most would probably be exploring that route. I would rather go ahead and try to get an interview with a regional with the hopes of having more time off and the option to commute if absolutely necessary. I've worked like a dog instructing and would rather not have to do it for 20 years to maybe skip the regionals.

As far as CFIing goes, I've been doing it for 3 years and have 2000 hours and am 2 hours shy of ATP xc mins. It's a good vehicle to get to where you need to be and save some coin along the way if you're doing it right. Besides the school where I got most of my ratings, I have run across very few career instructors. Most of them are free lance if I had to guess.

I used to complain about the regionals and the dismal pay but the reality is once you get past the first couple of years the pay seems to be decent.

I flew a King Air before taking a job at a Regional. Part 135/91 does not prepare you for a Part 121 airline job, and the majors know it. I tried to skip the regionals, and was told by a recruiter at a major "While your résumé is good, I can't possibly hire you when there are so many qualified applicants with 121 experience."

If you found the only air ambulance job willing to hire you with less than 4,000 hours I suggest you take it, but the fact that you're comparing an air ambulance job to entry-level turbine jobs like regional airlines and Ameriflight demonstrates a lack of understanding of how this industry works.

Is the Regional life that much better than CFIing?

or is regional only better because it's a necessary path to major?