USair/"Eagle"proposal update
 

Council 121 Newsblast
Written June 21, 2013

Monday and Tuesday of last week your full MEC finally met to receive and discuss the offer from USAir management given to the MEC Officers the previous Wednesday.
This proposal came as a result of discussions between our leadership and the new management team over last year’s fleet plan (that was never provided as promised).
The proposal was missing the three items we expressed a need for – the ability to attract new hires, the ability to retain those that are here and a specific fleet plan with guaranteed hulls as negotiated for over the last 3 years through the “plan to win”, divestiture TA and bankruptcy.
As a result of the shortfall, the voting members of the MEC provided specific guidance to the officers and negotiations committee that the offer from USAir was an insult and unacceptable.
We explained to our Negotiations Committee and Officers that we were willing to discuss a reasonable offer, however, the B scale that the company wanted was unacceptable under any circumstances.
The voting members of the MEC gave the MEC Chairman and Vice Chairman a very specific set of guidelines for discussion with the company – again, any reasonable discussion and offer would be considered but the MEC very specifically guided that there would be absolutely NO B-scale or “Growth Scale” as USAir Management wanted. This was supported 100% by the MEC.
We were told that a meeting with USAir would be possible later in the week and the MEC tasked one of our members to accompany the leadership to ensure that our guidance was presented.
Thursday morning the voting members of the MEC received a newly created proposal (as drafted by our Negotiators and MEC Officers) and it was generally in line with our guidance.
Thursday afternoon a teleconference was called for the purposes of recapping for the voting members of the MEC the discussion from the table with USAir.
The MEC was told that management regarded the B scale as a necessary part of any deal – an issue the MEC had already resolved unanimously as unacceptable, a non-starter.
The MEC initially held firm, but after a barrage of push from our leadership, as well as absolute silence from ALPA representatives on the call, the MEC split in favor of opening discussion to the entire deal to “look and see” what the deal would look like.
I truly believe that the goal of the day by USAir management was only to see if we would entertain something as abhorrent as the B scale.
Rest assured it will be in every contract they negotiate from this point on regardless of whether we approve a deal created out of this process.
I cannot begin to express my most sincere apology for the absolute failure of this board to recognize the lessons learned over the last 30 years trying to bury Pandora’s Box. When AA opened the box in the 80’s they took the entire industry down with them including every new hire on the property – a group that now far outnumbers the non B scale group setting up one of the greatest divisive issues in aviation history.
Unfortunately, we have once again dared to crack the seal to “peek inside” and find out what the “the deal looks like” providing management the keen understanding that we as well as every other MEC are willing to take this industry not into not the toilet it was under Crandall’s B scale but into the cesspool the old toilet drains into. This industry has served as the airline “Z Scale” for years, now we offer that same future to our new hires.
Our management and USAir’s management have very handily showed us what we are worth and what value we bring to the corporation.
I am truly sorry I have failed you all.
I am truly sorry we the MEC have failed you all.

Fraternally
PXXXl VXXXXe and SXXm PXXXl

Take concessions or we'll give the flying and new planes to SKW, Rah, XJT or Mesa...

Does this ever stop?????

I saw acey 200 flying as AE today in DC.

Doesn't the pilot group ultimately get to vote on this?

By the time the pilot group votes for it, the fear of doom and gloom has already spread like wild fire. Top 20% will vote yes just to keep their jobs. Bottom 60% will vote yes thinking this bandaid will last them long enough to upgrade or get enough tpic to jump ship.

Ultimately, the responsibility lies at the mec level.

Another illusion that we have control when we're just pawns...

Not scared. They can threaten all they want but it will be a big NO.

I just checked our flowboard (I'm at XJT). The furthest East we fly for American is Columbia, South Carolina. No XJT Eagle birds were in DC. We do have one ship down due to damage, the only thing I can figure, if its even possible, is that it was in DC refueling on its way to Montreal. Last I heard it was in JAX, however.

AnchorDown

Sorry I was in cae as well today, going into dca. Must've lost track while having too much fun!

was PSA brought into the discussion at all? I have a feeling we'll be seeing a proposal soon.

USAir = US Airways.....name changed several years ago. Small potatoes in the big picture and I hope LEagle is able to negotiate a truly deserving contract. I understand the wholly owned have committees to discuss contract issues with each other, question is, are they actively discussing or is it a "title" position ?

..........

This airline has continued to disappoint since I show
ed up

I'm starting to feel real good about ditching out on that Eagle interview. This industry is being dismantled brick by brick...pathetic.

A "B Scale" in an already "D Scale" industry.

The Harvard MBA greed is good crowd makes me sick, and the fact that the leadership of any union is buying it (and pushing it) revolts me.

Just so ya'll know- the reason USeLess Air is pushing this so hard RIGHT NOW, is because they know come August they won't have anyone on the inside to make it happen, and in fact probably won't be able to get anyone to listen.

Lets try one of mgt's negotiating tactics- delay, delay, delay. We've got a contract. Lets go with it.

What exactly does this b-scale look like? I don't want to believe that any union leadership would entertain such an idea, especially at the regional level. My anger has turned to depression for what these managers think of their employees. Horton takes 20 million all while pilots lose their houses and their ability to provide for their families?

One thing I noticed back when Pinnacle was hiring was that new hires have absolutely no idea what they are stepping into. Instead of telling everyone to quit, why not enlighten these guys. I wish someone had taken the time to show me the ropes before I signed up. It's not even about screwing the man, rather looking out for a fellow aviator who could essentially be signing away any ability to provide for a family. If I hear about one more of my close friends losing their house while flying 85+ a month I might just lose it.

...it's easier said than done! I hope that captains organize something like this and us FOs do some sort of sick out to prove that this airline will come to a hault without it's employees but I'm sure it won't make a difference!!!!

truly disgusting move by the union when the majority of the pilots they're representing is n disagreement with the proposal.

I know this is going to sound really stupid, but can someone explain a b scale? Is it a new and lower scale for new hires?

Yep, with basically no chance of advancing to the upper scale (if you want to call it that).

USair/"Eagle"proposal update
 

Iowa Farm Boy...
"USELEss Air" will be soon writing your paycheck. And if its soo bad at Eagle why haven't you or your cronies left for a major? UA, AA/US, AS, or SW? As far as anyone in the "inside". Parker will always have someone on the inside at the His wholly owns. Hence why your Eagle CEO is gone.

...yes and it only shows that management is not considering on expanding this company with either a yes or no votes! with a low pay scale we have now with difficulties in hiring, who in their sane mind will come here and work for much less!!!

So regionals are having a hard time getting people to show up for class, this is stated by management not just pilots who hope for a pilot shortage, so I tend to believe it. With that being said, management wants to make the job even less appealing to potential prospects? This makes me think, what do they know that we dont? Do they not care about staffing eagle because theyre planning to shrink them anyway? Is the retirement age about to increase? Again creating years of stagnation and solving any staffing issues they might have? This proposal is troubling in many ways.

Everyone needs to realize that the regional airline business model only makes sense when the labor is cheap and not high up the longevity scale.

When your pilot group starts to leave either of those two categories, management is going to find a way to fix it. They don't care about staffing, careers, putting food on the table, etc. You are a cost to be minimized and a liability to be eliminated and replaced. They're not working with you, they're solving the problem that is "you." And they will.

Parker isn't stupid. He saw what happened with pinnacle an how easily they caved.

1. Make ridiculous proposal
2. Threaten to shutter company
3. Realize pilots take the attitude that a lousy job is better than losing it totally and being unemployed.
4. Laugh as union votes 90% in favor of further poverty.
5. Cash bonus check.


If alpa allows this to happen then they're more worthless than previous thought. We're already low paid compared to all the other blue collar skilled trades.

i agree. when was the last time a regional stood up and said fu pay me? comair and everyone remembers. management will continue to run the same play because every threatened regional votes 90% yes for more cuts.

All Parker needs is 50%+1. Take what were offering or will shrink you at the rate of attrition. Once small enough, your CRJ's will be acquired by another and you may be offered a job, but not with your seniority.

The question is, is will the membership cave on this threat which may or may not be valid or reject it ?

The big problem in the equation is the eagle MEC, will they stand up and do the right thing and tell them our contract is set and signed by the bankruptcy judge, we can talk but nothing is going to be done until 2017.

I agree with the comment about Pinnacle, but here's food for thought.
I was a no voter, but that aside... GoJet is gonna lose their Delta contract next year. It's done. Look I'm not bashing GoJet pilots I want to make that clear. Now next year GoJet is gonna be looking for business and you can guarantee that they will have their names in the hat for some of that AA flying.
I work for Pinnacle and I'm one of the biggest critics out there, but Eagle guys wait until your fighting to stay a float when GoJet comes in and says they can do your 700 flying at half of what you do it for.
It will get ugly.

Why is gojet losing their delta flying? I would think delta loves gojet. They've been a very effective whipsawing tool thus far.

The job they did is done, at least at Delta.
I'm not gonna say you heard it here first or any of that crap, but GoJet is done in the Delta system.
I'm not saying the airline is finished because I'm sure AA has a place for them.
I can say with a "fair amount of certainty" that all of GoJets 700 are going to Pinnacle.
Yes I work at Pinnacle, but could careless about their planes coming here, but if you could see the amount of money from Delta coming into our airline to start a 700 program you would agree.
But I have a feeling that something is lined up for them and I think it's AA flying.
GoJet was brought in as part of a plan to replace Pinnacle if we went under, and since we didn't their out if we did GoJet would have been huge in the Delta system. It was a gamble and GoJet lost that one, but I bet not in the future.

GoJet is losing their Delta flying due to absolutely horrendous performance. They were warned by Delta that they were not meeting their operational goals and that provisions in the contract allow for it to be terminated if said goals were not met. GoJet was given the opportunity to better their performance and failed.

So if their performance is so terrible then why on earth would AA jump at giving them flying?

Because their cheap and that's what Parker wants.

Yes cheap is good I get it, but you have to get your passengers to their destination. If gojet cant do that, then Parker is selling a product that he cant deliver.

It appears as eagle has a choice.
Having a slow death like comair or taking it up the arse like pinnacle.
Parker will get what he wants. He will throw in a $500 signing bonus to secure the deal.

I vote slow death.

Lemme tell you a little story. Not too long ago I had an Eagle chief pilot in the jumpseat(very nice guy). We were chatting during a long on board delay about the horrendous state of the industry. Not just regionals but airlines in general. We were both talking about how absolutely horrendous the Chautauqua performance is on the American side. He said that AMR is doing the best it can to terminate that contract because the performance is so awful. So I posed the question...if AMR wants out of the contract because their performance is so terrible then why did they just give them a boatload of new E170's...his answer..."Because they were that much cheaper than everyone else.

Horton made that deal for more than one purpose. I believe partially to devalue eagle? Correct me if im wrong on that one. Parker isnt Horton, he has an airline to run now and a product to sell. Cheap is still important to him, obviously, but performance will play a very big role going forward. If he does give flying to gojet and they dont deliver, he will get rid of them too. Lets just hope he stays away from them altogether.

Oh no!! Let him have it all. When explode in his face then it will be a different story...

I find it highly unlikely that GoJet will get any AA flying. However, you may see Compass who is also owned by Trans States be awarded some E175 flying. There is a history between the two companies since Trans States Airlines used to fly under the banner American Connection.

And Parker has a history with basically every regional. What is your point?