|
Eagle News Blast
Fellow American Eagle Pilots, I have asked the MEC to convene on Monday to discuss US Airways' final proposal. Although we cannot post the actual proposal from US Airways unless the MEC decides to send it to the membership for a vote, I think it is important that we convey the basic tenets of that document. Since the beginning of these discussions, US Airways management has sought to restructure our contract into one that provides a new approach to dealing with new hires by placing them on a lower cost pay and benefit structure. While we attempted to make various improvements to US Airways’ approach, and despite a few alterations, we have been largely unsuccessful as management believes that this new structure is the future course for our segment of the industry. US Airways says they need the following. For all Eagle pilots already on property: · No changes to current contract for existing pilots · If this deal were ratified by the pilots, Eagle pilots who later decline to flow to AA would have their pay rate frozen · Pilots who have already declined to transfer to AA, will not have their payrate frozen and will remain under the current contract. · Proposal contains a minimum fleet size guarantee for 8 years and that would be guaranteed by the mainline, which would include larger new aircraft · Proposal contains increasing the minimum number of pilots per year that Eagle must allow to flow to AA by 25% The cost savings USAirways is looking for to accomplish the above bullets would come from future new hire pilots. Future new hire pilots would: · Work under reduced payrate and benefits compared to new hires under the current agreement · All future new hires would be “hired” by AA and would be able to participate in the same flow as rest of Eagle pilots in seniority order USAirways indicated that without this deal, they would place the new aircraft at another carrier with lower costs. Additionally, the return schedule for our current EMB aircraft has not changed and if it remains unchanged, most of the EMB fleet will have been returned or retired by the end of 2017. I am not writing this email to sway your opinion, but it is imperative that your opinion be rooted in fact and that you know what USAirways is actually proposing. Every single call that I have received over the past two weeks has been working under the assumption that additional concessions from existing Eagle pilots and their current agreement were a part of US Airways’ proposal. As you can see from the above bullet points, USAirways is not looking for concessions from current Eagle pilots with one exception. If this deal were ratified then after the ratification, an Eagle pilot that chooses not to flow to AA when he/she has the opportunity will then have his/her payrate frozen. If you have questions or opinions, please reach out to your local reps. They will be meeting this coming Monday to decide what to do with this proposal. Tony Gutierrez MEC Chairman Discuss :) |
Oh yippie, we can go to American in a decade if we fly for nothing! Yes voter here
|
I don't get this. Aren't regionals having trouble recruiting right now? How is lowering pay for new hires and creating a B scale supposed to attract more people to work there? Do they really think that prospective employees will put that much value in a flow through?
I'm really scratching my head on this one. |
Originally Posted by DashDriverYV
(Post 1443968)
Oh yippie, we can go to American in a decade if we fly for nothing! Yes voter here
USeless Airways-American is gonna fly those ERJ190s until they fall apart |
B Scale Redux
B Scales are fundamentally unfair since they pay employees performing the exact same work different pay.
Did the Eagle MEC question the Pinnacle agreement, or it's numerous violations of ALPA's Admin Manual during ratification? Their complaints ring a bit hollow since they did nothing to address the situation when the time was appropriate. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1444018)
B Scales are fundamentally unfair since they pay employees performing the exact same work different pay.
Did the Eagle MEC question the Pinnacle agreement, or it's numerous violations of ALPA's Admin Manual during ratification? Their complaints ring a bit hollow since they did nothing to address the situation when the time was appropriate. What difference does it make if Alpa violated anything when the president signs the TA? It's a joke regardless, oh well. |
What a joke! Tell them to shove it!
|
Minimum fleet guarantees mean absolutely nothing. You need a minimum block hour guarantee.
Comair had a minimum fleet guarantee, which Delta adhered to, however those planes sat idle in remote parking for the duration of the LOA. We also had the "except for those airframes scheduled to come off lease'' clause.Once the LOA expired, those planes began to disappear pronto. In doing so, Delta intentionally and artificially inflated Comair's costs so they could hasten its dismantling. A MINIMUM FLEET GUARANTEE IS MEANINGLESS!!! I cannot stress this enough. |
188 ERJs for 60 (maybe) future large RJs.... Hmmm sounds like a major reduction not needing that won't require a need to staff....
|
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1444018)
B Scales are fundamentally unfair since they pay employees performing the exact same work different pay.
|
So what does the proposed B scale and work rules look like? Its already extremely difficult to survive as a Jr regional fo, now they want to pay even less? I know there are a ton of pilots out there and don't buy into this whole shortage nonsense, but at some point, working at Starbucks becomes a more lucrative career than flying an rj.
|
How is a 1st year guy making like 22k a year the one bankrupting the company?
|
Originally Posted by BSOuthisplace
(Post 1443994)
I don't get this. Aren't regionals having trouble recruiting right now? How is lowering pay for new hires and creating a B scale supposed to attract more people to work there? Do they really think that prospective employees will put that much value in a flow through?
I'm really scratching my head on this one. |
Eagle News Blast
Management can't follow one contract at most companies. How are they going to follow two different set of work rules for the same pilot group?
|
Sad part is that it will pass by 80%. Pinnacle was the same way. It has come to the point that the regionals have destroyed the career pilot. I don't know about a pilot shortage but there will be a shortage of people coming out of flight school. Over the next few years I can see the regional fleet being cut in half just to deal with attrition and no new hires available.
|
Originally Posted by Is offline
(Post 1444504)
Sad part is that it will pass by 80%. Pinnacle was the same way. It has come to the point that the regionals have destroyed the career pilot. I don't know about a pilot shortage but there will be a shortage of people coming out of flight school. Over the next few years I can see the regional fleet being cut in half just to deal with attrition and no new hires available.
|
Eagle is about to sign their own death sentence. The available pool of qualified pilots is about to drastically decrease, and demand is on the upswing. Once airlines like Pinnacle and Eagle can't hire due to horrible contracts and a/c orders versus OO and RP, it will be the last reason mainline needs to shrink them to Comair status.
|
The AA/APA scope agreement requires covered equipment to be flown by "pilots on the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List". This agreement puts nearly all Eagle pilots on the AA seniority list, a nice end-run around scope. All new pilots will be hired as AA pilots, but work at Eagle under the new Eagle/ALPA B-scale. Bigger equipment is on order and soon to be delivered, and it would be Eagle pilots in them with this agreement. AA can shrink quickly and furlough, probably with flowbacks to Eagle, moving all narrow-body planes and flying to Eagle. Eagle should be able to attract plenty of cheap pilots in this scenario.
Goodbye APA. |
Originally Posted by scottm
(Post 1444556)
The AA/APA scope agreement requires covered equipment to be flown by "pilots on the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List". This agreement puts nearly all Eagle pilots on the AA seniority list, a nice end-run around scope. All new pilots will be hired as AA pilots, but work at Eagle under the new Eagle/ALPA B-scale. Bigger equipment is on order and soon to be delivered, and it would be Eagle pilots in them with this agreement. AA can shrink quickly and furlough, probably with flowbacks to Eagle, moving all narrow-body planes and flying to Eagle. Eagle should be able to attract plenty of cheap pilots in this scenario.
Goodbye APA. |
Originally Posted by BSOuthisplace
(Post 1443994)
I don't get this. Aren't regionals having trouble recruiting right now? How is lowering pay for new hires and creating a B scale supposed to attract more people to work there? Do they really think that prospective employees will put that much value in a flow through?
I'm really scratching my head on this one. |
Originally Posted by kingairfun
(Post 1444565)
The sad thing is this is probably pretty accurate...... Not just for Eagle/AA but for all Legacies.... The E170-190 has been around for a few years now... And unfortunately it'll only get bigger from here... Delta relaxing larger a/c in return for less 50 seaters has only accelerated the seat increase... Someday it will be 120 seat a/c flown at regionals.. (Instead of 717's, A319's) For $47 right seat and $105 left seat...:confused:
|
Originally Posted by Airlinewisdom
(Post 1444612)
Remember the big picture. If you're a good pilot and a good employee almost all will be hired by the majors and in 10 - 12 years you'll be a captain with at least 15 days off a month and want remember these discussions. Supply and demand will rule the market place and benefits and pay will ultimately go up..watch for the next few regional contracts that are settled.
|
Electra, you just proved who truly has "airlinewisdom."
|
They are trying to squeeze the last drop before shutting down.
|
Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 1444791)
They are trying to squeeze the last drop before shutting down.
If they want to shut down Eagle, Adding a B scale will not change a thing. Listen to how airlines are saying that everything hinges on pilot pay. There are many pieces to the pie and the pilots are just a small piece. |
Originally Posted by Airlinewisdom
(Post 1444612)
Remember the big picture. If you're a good pilot and a good employee almost all will be hired by the majors and in 10 - 12 years you'll be a captain with at least 15 days off a month and want remember these discussions. Supply and demand will rule the market place and benefits and pay will ultimately go up..watch for the next few regional contracts that are settled.
Keep looking into that crystal ball. It's IMPOSSIBLE to predict the future of this industry so accurately. Supply and demand always rules the market place (unless the government decides to intervene!), and guess what? There will be plenty of supply. |
Originally Posted by kingairfun
(Post 1444565)
The sad thing is this is probably pretty accurate...... Not just for Eagle/AA but for all Legacies.... The E170-190 has been around for a few years now... And unfortunately it'll only get bigger from here... Delta relaxing larger a/c in return for less 50 seaters has only accelerated the seat increase... Someday it will be 120 seat a/c flown at regionals.. (Instead of 717's, A319's) For $47 right seat and $105 left seat...:confused:
|
Talk to us next year about delta, how are those 717's going?
|
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1444948)
Talk to us next year about delta, how are those 717's going?
Johnso29 is one of most fair minded, clued in mainline posters on this board, so I hope not. |
No, but all fail to understand this business. The union does not use pattern bargaining as the unions of the auto industry but management does. Everything depends on what the new aa contract will say and then the rest of the mainlines management will do the same especially if they (not aa) cost more to operate next to the new aa. These guys have time on there side, pilots don't.
|
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1444948)
Talk to us next year about delta, how are those 717's going?
|
That is good news.
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:00 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands