Northwest Airlines
 

over the past year, everyone in the NWA family has been through a lot, including the regionals (especially Mesaba). Now that they are coming out of bankruptcy and they have ordered 76 regional jets, I ask why they keep delaying the announcement of who is going to get them. I really thought the answer would come today with Mesaba getting the 36 CRJ 900's, but nothing was said. I know they already know who is getting the planes, so why not just announce it so people can plan their lives. Now that they haven't announced it, I feel like Pinnacle might still be in the running for them, and to be honest with you, I just want to keep our same fleet size and let Mesaba get planes back so that some of my friends who are layed off can get their jobs back. The perfect situation would be that mainline would do all of that flying for good rates, but we know that can't happen, so I just hope NWA announces the awards soon.

Be Safe everyone and Have a happy holiday.

I think NWA will hold their announcement until the head of ALPA signs off on the Mesaba agreement.

wha..... wha..... wha..... on side note that was the most pointless post I have heard lately.... get used to it announcements are never made on time; this industry is a b!tch and despite our unionisitc wishes that every one can be happy and do well, it's dog eat dog out there... So honestly I hope we here at 9E do get the 900's maybe then some of us can upgrade and move on and progress can be made... (btw yes I have had a few and yes I'm grouchy) as for XJ best of luck (but so much for no concessions) if it was me I would have had some bal!s and burned the house down... and on a side note I can't wait until some more mainlines open up.... get on with my life.... but anyways happy holidays to all.. BTW FTROOPPILOT that avatar of yours taken from inside a WB-57X I'm guessing??? did you do some flying for NASA or just an avatar??? just curious......

Three years USAF RB-57F Pilot. "Self portrait" taken with a 19MM wide angle Cannon Pellix Camera in 1969. Note how dark it is straight up in daytime.

Im not sure who will get the flying but Pinnacle has had 3 classes in 2 months with another class starting Monday. And from what I hear there may be up to 2 more classes before the end of the year. Things are moving around here and I'm guessing management knows something that we do not.

HAHA! Ok, I'm not trying to be mean here... but what airline management DOESN'T know something that the pilots don't...:D

Very True.

Pinnacle just came to UND this past week and hired a 280TTer. Somehow i am thinking they are just a little short on pilots.........

The thing that a lot of people need to understand is that we don't have a contract, and we don't have pay rates for 70 seaters, so therefore we will not be getting 70 seat aircraft until we have a pay scale for them. Unless management and our union come to a shocking agreement soon, these planes are not coming to us. MAybe the picketing on the 5th will help. There is the possiblity for more 50 seaters if NWA wants to expand regional flying in other places besides the three main hubs. AS far as hiring people with 250 hours, its b.s., no matter what school you come from. 600 hours should be the extreme minimun, but it should be 1000 hours, just to get experience before you are 35000 in the air going 500 mph. I hope these low time people know that although they have an airline job, our check airmen are really testing these people in the sim and on the line, and don't come here expecting to upgrade anytime soon. If you have 250 hours and flew 1000 hours a year which very hard to do, you would upgrade in 3 years with our 3000 hour requirement. So plan on at least 4 years to upgrade.

I hope we get the -900's! the only problem I can see arising is the shortage of pilots and captains. Sure we got plenty of guys/gals who can upgrade but the 3000 hour mark may be a hard thing to get by for enough captains for 36 jets plus attrition. It is possible for the time to get dropped to maybe 2500tt with 500 in type. I dont know if this is just an insurance thing or mgmt- anybody know? I am sure a contract will happen before the jets show up, even now if the pilot group strikes NWA is screwed! This is a very interesting time and I hope all works out. As far as the low timers- I cant talk as a high timer (hired with 915tt/240multi) but I think 600/100 should be the BARE minimum.

Whoa... yea that sounds like a BIG shortage to me...

Not so many years after the McKone and Olmstead era. (They were in an -H model, right?)

I joined the 38th SRS (and 55th SRW) when Col McKone was the 3902 Air Base Wing Commander at Offutt.


Just out of curiosity, are you a member of the 55th Strategic Reconnaissance Wing Association, Inc.?








.

That is amazing that they would hire a 280TTer. SCARY!! Pinnacle has turned away a lot of 1000+ hr CFI's. From what I've read their interview process is difficult. I can't believe someone with that low of time would have the knowledge level required to make it through the interview. I've read the gouges and don't know half of the answers. I've got a lot more time than 280TT. Heck, I have more multi than that.

I agree, 280TT is maybe enough to find a flight instructing position. That probably includes 25-30 multi if I know the UND system correctly. Not much multi time to upgrade from a Warrior to, well, anything with 2 engines!

PNCL interview is having a pulse. I bet the jets dont go to XJ or 9E.

[quote=TonyC;87630]Not so many years after the McKone and Olmstead era. (They were in an -H model, right?)

Believe it was a RB-47H - not a high altitude aircraft. Read book "The Little Toy Dog" which is about their flight.

I joined the 38th SRS (and 55th SRW) when Col McKone was the 3902 Air Base Wing Commander at Offutt.

Belonged to 58th Weather Reconnasisance Squadron (misnomer - we never flew when there was weather) :D :D


Just out of curiosity, are you a member of the 55th Strategic Reconnaissance Wing Association, Inc.?

No - just attend a Ftroop dinner each December in Albuquerque.

Duh. Funny how I'd notice F versus H, but completely miss the 57 versus 47. Sorry 'bout that.


:cool:





.

Not to start an argument but UND does run their kids through a CRJ specific ground school and basically half of a CRJ type rating (including profiles and emergencies) the only reason they do not recieve a type is that the sim is not full motion. I am not saying that this qualifies people with low times to be regional pilots but.... basically they have already have gone through the same ground school that pinnacle has. Therefore one would anticipate that a UND grad would be more likely to pass training than someone who has had zero CRJ experience.

Sidenote: JetU has finalized a contract with UND to put their students through ground school... apparently they find UND's standards for completion high enough to justify this move.

Again, this is not to insinuate that these low time pilots should be at pinnacle but they do have previous experience with the knowledge required to pass ground school and IOE.

For the record, I am a UND grad and I have taken the CRJ course there. I can honestly say that it helped, but it no amount of ground school can substitute for stick and rudder time! I know, I know there's also sim time involved with the course too. But I maintain that total time is where we refine our skills and gain the most experience... I seriously doubt that 20 hrs in the sim plus the rest of 280TT will provide that opportunity...

Right! and all of the "regional" carriers would go belly up. That would be THE perfect situation. SOme of your friends at mesaba getting their jobs back?....hmmmm . don't you think that it would be more appropriate to get the jobs back of NWA pilots first(i.e. the REAL airline and the only reason mesaba exists)? CRJ 900's? I hope you guys are all gonna be happy stuck at the "regional" level, because the more 170's and 900's there are, the less 737's and A320's there are....get it?:mad:

Be careful what you wish for! your post is extremely contradictory

You guys are idiots. You have no clue just how much these 900's are hurting your career.

The CRJ ground school and sim course do definitely help when you head off to the regional airlines. I ended up flying the ERJ and I still found it helpful. And yes, the reason airlines will hire UND grads with such low time is because they have proven they can make it through an airline-style training program. ASA, Horizon, ACA and others do/have done the same thing for a long time. A proven track is why. I will second another poster by saying that I don't think 280 hours qualifies one to go blasting off in a jet with 50 paying passengers behind them. You may have the knowledge (anyone can learn an electrical system or how a pack works) and the stick and rudder skills but there is just NO WAY you can have the level of experience necessary to make the decisions you will come across flying in the 121 world. Just a lot of aeronautical immaturity there, I don't care how old you are. I started instructing at about 280-300 hours and there is a LOT of learning and growing up you will do as you build that PIC time, even if it is in a warrior or arrow or cessna.

Don't know much about the JetU program but UND has a long history of contract training with various entities. There have been long-term contracts where we were training pilots for China Airlines, ARAMCO, Cirrus and a few others as well as smaller contracts. The latest company that I know of who is sending applicants to UND for training is ANA in Japan. So UND doing outside contract training is nothing new.

Well if the career goals are fedex/ups/ or corporate how is that? If I can get turbine PIC faster how does that deter me from my career goals? How do you offset the "shortage" of pilots (this post discusses this) plus upcoming retirement? The regionals may not be the "majors" but the majors, cargo, and corporate operators will still need pilots.

I agree...but whose fault is that? The situation for regional pilots is what it is and wasn't made by the pilots at that level. It was made by people like you who didn't/couldn't stand (not that I blame you or pretend to know all the ends and outs of the situation). You are being unreasonable and making not well thought out statements when you blame regional pilots for major pilots' concessions. The situation does suck as I believe you're right...major growth will suffer and wages will be held down...the situation, however, was created when you (the mainline pilot) gave up your scope. Don't blame the regionals for the state you created.

Thanks for your patronisation. The situation was not created by the pilots who fly the RJs. It was created each and every time a mainline contract was either thrown out or the pilots at the mainline conceded the scopes.

Don't blame us.

I would also rather see these airplanes at a mainline so I can get a mainline seniority number. But the way the business is these days was not created by the RJ pilots.

You don't want us to fly these? Then demand them for the mainline. But if the mainline gives them up who is supposed to fly them?

Well said.. I concur!

That's one of the best pictures I"ve seen.

Sorry if it's a little off topic (NWA); I have a vested interest. Son is a CRJ FO.


See http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/spe...tin/wb-57f.htm for more RB-57F photos.

Woerth signed off on it and it went into effect 12-1. We're living under the new rules now. Last Avro is down and some bonus flying remains to ferry them to Europe. Mesaba is now a 49 Saab operation. Nothing official or unofficial about any other flying. Seems to be par for the course when it comes to NWA announcements. We still don't even know for 100% certainty the Saabs are ours to keep. Securing that "core" business is still a management objective on their latest talking points.

Are pilots still bailing from Mesaba? Is attrition high? If (Hypothetically) Mesaba is awarded the flying of the 36 CRJs are they going to have to hire heavily?

Attrition is still "high" for us, but has slowed noticeably the last couple of weeks. I suspect that will be the status quo through the holidays. I believe it will pick up again slightly in the new year. We have lost 200ish pilots so far. Mid-November seniority list shows 784 total pilots with 220 on furlough. That is down from 980 at our high September of 2005. I have heard that in the neighborhood of 90 of the furloughs are gone but names still remain on the list...bookeeping hasn't caught up yet.

So, yes, if we do get 36 additional aircraft coming next year, there will be the need to hire in the neighborhood of 200-250 pilots to staff back to the required levels in my estimation. (We will be a little leaner due to the implementation of PBS in 2008.)

Gee, maybe that's why he SAID THE SAME THING ALREADY: The perfect situation would be that mainline would do all of that flying for good rates, but we know that can't happen....


See, I think he was trying to say something like this, "Yes, mainline flying only would be the ideal, but we are stuck with our present situation for the time being. Therefore, l would like to discuss this other issue [aircraft allotments] without re-opening that oh-so-tired debate about who should fly what. Unfortunately, there is always some idiot like you, Hotmama [a dubious claim if I ever heard one], who can't grasp the topic's thread and make a meaningful contribution. I would draw you a picture, too, but I don't have my crayons handy. Moron.

Lol. you used the word dubious. LOl. You are the moron. I bet you went to riddle, didn't you. Flight instructed for a while and ended up in a shiny RJ. Who are you flying for? WHo's the idiot? lol

I don't blame you guys( I was one of you at one time). I just get sick of these lifers at regionals getting excited about "bigger planes".

Lifers are lifers because there is no other job right now. Trust me. But there is finally some movement. Do you guys really think that we want to spend our lives at companies which constantly say that survival is dependent upon our taking concessions? (Well, I guess the majors do the same thing.....) I want to go to a legacy carrier too, but right now the road is very narrow and lots of pilots are trying to get there.

If the legacy carrier pilots don't want the constant aircraft expansion at the so-called 'regional' level then it is up to you to stop it, not us.

Good post. However, there are PLENTY of peops who are staying at regionals because they want to. i.e. want to be BIG fish in little pond.

Some stay at regionals because it is closer to home, or they have the seniority to bid well, or they are 45 or so and don't want to start over again. There are LOTS of reasons they stay, some better than others. I know a guy who, when AWAC was bought by United a number of years ago was a captain on the 146. He was offered an interview at United and didn't get the job (only 1 AWAC pilot did IIRC) but others did because of United's system of preferential hiring at the time.

He is a lifer now. Bids well and is about 48 years old and doesn't want to commute across the country to a reserve spot.

I have said before that if so-called 'regional' jets were capped at 50 seats I would support that 100%. I think most pilots would too, since it might mean getting a seniority number at a legacy or mainline carrier sooner rather than later. But right now that is not the case and the carriers' managements has successfully been able to chip away at the scope clauses. Whose fault is that? Continental has successfully kept it at 50 seats I think. Good for them. They are hiring. Coincidence? I think not.

Saab 2000
 

well put dude.....I wish everyone GOT IT like you do(no, i'm not patronizing). KUDOS to you and all who think as you do.:)

:D ;)

Filler
Filler