Two regional offers, Which one?
 

TSA or SKYWEST ?
Which one would you take?

Two regional offers, Which one?
 

Don't chase a quick upgrade.. Where do you want to live? Are you commuting?

9 years? Where are you getting your info from?

I would on take Trans States if you live in Missouri and meet the new upgrade requirements.

Sounds like you think you're too good to fly a turboprop. Do us all a favor and don't come to Skywest. If that's going to be your attitude we don't want you here.

Stupid Turbo Props

arent transtates upgrade requirements like insanely high?

Go to the one that let's you live where you want to live. Also what's wrong with the Brasilia? I made more money first and second year as a Brasilia pilot than almost any RJ pilot of similar seniority at Skywest or any other regional. I had a line quick compared to spending years making reserve guarantee on the RJ.

If you think you're too good for the bro then you probably shouldn't come to Skywest.

Not at all, Both companies have merits.
 

Wow! not at all. Kinda hostile there buddy. I am looking for my career and love the work.

I'm looking for some constructive advice.

There is no way that Trans states is upgrading in a year. Sounds like youre being offered a job at their gojet division. Take skywest.

What is the real story?
They haven't told me where im going yet.

What are you hearing. I am trying to make the right decision here and my information seems wrong from the posts here?
Thanks

I worded that badly. Skywest is a great company with great people. I know some very happy people there. The Brasilia is a great plane and i would be happy and lucky to fly it.
I am really looking for some constructive advice.
Regards

I know that upgrades at Trans states is about 6 years right now. Gojet was hiring street capts until recently, thus its more plausible to have one year upgrades there. Gojet is owned by Trans states (if you didnt know that) and ive heard of them doing this before. If you choose Trans states just make sure you know what airplane youre getting before class. If its a crj, youre at gojet. If its erj, 6 year upgrade. Id skip it all and take skywest.

Go to Compass. They're expected to start interviewing next month. It's the only regional with tons of movement going on in the near future almost all tied to Delta hiring.

With that said If you can live in base then I'd say that's the one to go with.

Don't chase the upgrade because it never pans out. (I can't say never but it's rare that you'll upgrade as soon as everyone says you will). I was hired at a different regional the same time my friends was at SkyWest and he started out on the Bro. That was 6 years ago. He's now based in SLC on the RJ and will take the first upgrade class he can. He's nowhere near an upgrade class. At the time I was hired at my current airline upgrades were at around 2 years, if not less. I'm going on my 6th year and we're losing planes so there's no upgrade in sight.

Things change by the day at the airlines so live where you're able to drive home at the end of a trip and pick the airline with better work/pay rules. Things like leg-by-leg pay, cancelation protection, 75-100% deadhead pay and decent reserve rules make a big day to day difference.

It seems like someone is a little sensitive about their turbo props on property. Don't judge SkyWest by that guys' remark about the props and you being "too good" for it. I have some friends at SW and they're great guys.

Thanks Even with the lashing i recived, i'm really glad i posted this cause my information seems to have been bad from the majority of the posts.
Thanks

I wouldn't base any career decisions on opinions on an anonymous message board!

Make a chart of the pros and cons of each company. TS Inc=possible quick upgrade, but get treated like dirt. Faster career progression. SKW=stagnant but a good place to spend your career if you get stuck. Treated well and paid well.

DON'T base your decision on bases or upgrade times. Things change in an instant in the regional industry. Just because you can be based near your home as a newhire, doesn't mean you won't get displaced to East Jesus in a year and forced to a 3 leg commute. and contracts end. I keep hearing GoJets may not be flying for Delta too much longer. Upgrade times could easily spike. SkyWest is very stable.

To the OP;

Starting in less than two weeks FO will require 1000hrs as a SIC in 121 operations before being able to upgrade (I don't know your background). You will spend at a minimum two month in training, then you will be the bottom reserve guy. Lets say that on average you fly 75 hrs a month, it will take 14 months before you obtain the 1000 SIC. Realistically speaking while on reserve you will likely average 50 hrs a months thus pushing your shortest time to upgrade to the two year mark. Regionals change rapidly, the one that seems like it's good now might not be in the near future. The regionals will see consolidation as there aren't many SCOPE clauses that require separate certificates. From people at SKW I have heard great things, there is no secret that due to the lower cost contracts around in the industry SKW will have to make an adjustment, but they are likely to be abetter place to work than most if not all. Flying the BRO is only going to give you more experience and increased QOL while making the same as the RJ.

Compass has a young pilot group and they are about to have a significant amount of turnover. As long as that pilot group is not merged with TSA or GoJet they will continue to do well. If TSH decided to do some consolidation then you will see things deteriorate as the attitude of these regionals is very different.

Not necessarily good advice but something to consider. I'm sure there were a lot of FOs at Comair who decided to place location as most important in their decision. Didn't work out so well. I'm a Northwesterner and made the hard decision to pass up Horizon. Great company and great location but I upgraded here in two years. That's a lot of retirement funding and doors opening while those that chose Horizon are falling behind in both however much they like where they live. Good luck with your decision and I hope it works out for you.

I thought the whole point of going to a regional was to do your time and get the hell out of there as quickly as possible. If so, you need to go to the place where you will fly the most (least time on reserve) and the one that will get you that lucrative PIC turbine time the quickest. No-one has a crystal ball but it safe to assume you will upgrade quicker at TSA than you would at SkyWest.

However, if QOL is at the top of your list and you are happy to grow roots at a regional, then SkyWest would be my first choice. Only problem with that is, if you are a 10 year captain at a decent company and life is dandy, will you still want to make the jump to a major and start all over again?

I fully expect to be called names for this comment, but the crappier the regional, the quicker you will get to where you ultimately want to be. Get in, fly your ass off, do your time, and get the resume out there. A year on reserve is pretty much a year wasted. You get credit for hours flown, not years served.

The problem is that upgrade times and time on reserve changes so drastically. Look at GoJet, Silver and GLA. Airplanes will be parking by the hundreds in the next two years and the large RJ on property will likely change hands. RAH screwed United with the Q400 flying and so did Delta via Pinnacle. I wouldn't be surprised to see airplanes from RAH making their way to SKW.

That way RAH will be able to concentrate in the new puppy...AA feed.

I hope other airlines pilots keep the line on the sand and we will see some improvement. Not holding my breath...

Q
 

You are telling him not to chase an upgrade yet advising to go to Compass where there is a lot of movement and a potential quick upgrade... sort of contradicting.

There is honestly no good advice when picking a regional besides picking the one where you can live in base or have an easy commute. That is honestly should be your top priority when picking. Every regional is crap. No regional is safe. When it looks like there is massive movement one day, its furloughs the next. So while you are stuck in regional purgatory you mine as well go for the best QOL by living in base, or in a city where your parents live so you can live rent free for awhile.

The problem is that everything you see isn't yours for the taking, your at the back of the line. If upgrade times are fast when you hire, they will probably be longer by the time your seniority number is called because they upgraded such a large number when you were hired. Its like an airline hiring like crazy when you get to your 250hr CPL. By the time you get to the 1500hr mark that airline probably did all of its big hiring and unless some massive growth happens, hiring will halt for a good while.

Heres some factoids to consider: the regional industry will not be expanding anymore, and fleets will add larger aircraft to replace smaller ones, so you have a net loss in pilot demand at regionals. My point being is that in a pursuit of taking a worse off regional to get a fast upgrade, you run the the risk of that airline consolidating its list with somewhere else or getting furloughed. So now instead of accelerating your careers its stalled, and your stuck at a company you dont want to be with. I believe as we've seen with the majors over the past 20 years, we will see the same at the regional level over the next several years. Fewer companies existing that is.

Go where you can live in base period. I can only imagine the QOL one would have by living in base.

It's true. Even reserve when you're in base isn't bad. It might even be preferable at times.

You really have to just read a lot and try to decide what is best for YOU and your career. Pay? Upgrade time? QOL?

It is surprising what other details of a contract can do to add to QOL.

When was hired into the regionals, I had a several choices for interviews. I choose a solid contract and QOL. IF I had chased the upgrade and home base, I would have upgraded in 3 years instead of almost 6.
A flip side to that is a friend who choose home base. He upgraded quickly, got his 1000pic and then went off to one of the best companies out there. He has since lost his life in a crash.
Another good friend ended up commuting, but upgraded quickly and is now super senior at the company. He makes good money and has choosen his family 1st with a good schedule and a simple drive to work.

I won't for a second, 2nd guess my decisions as it has led me to my current job, which I love. You should have, or at least will start to hear that you can't really know if you did your airline career right until you have retired.

I am a bit out of touch with the regional market in the States now, but keep reading. (fast since you have a offer) Skywest is a good company. No matter which company you go to, there will always be "that guy/gal", so ignore the sarcastic stupidity when it comes to comments about your career.

Go with your gut and do what you think is best for you. Just my $.02

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said go to Compass for a quick upgrade did I?? I can't find it if I did say that. Being junior FO on reserve typically isn't good QOL, especially if you have to commute. So, when I mention high turn over rate or a lot of movement that could mean moving up the FO list a little faster to be able to hold a line and have a little better QOL. So, no, I didn't contradict myself. You assumed I meant a quick upgrade.

I think some of the information being presented here is wrong. First and foremost, I think we need some more information from you. Where do you live? How many hours do you have? Like someone already said, you'll need 1000 hours 121 time to upgrade so if you're new to the industry, it will be at least a year and a half before you upgrade even if you fly your @$$ off. I am not bashing skywest here. I think it's a pretty good airline (as far as regionals go). I'm just trying to clarify some information about TSA. Upgrade was 6 years ago. Now they are saying upgrade will be 12 months (if you have the time). Right now the minimums are 3500 (500 hours at TSA counting as 1000). I believe the 3rd or 4th guy down the standing bid list for CA is a September 2012 hire. There's supposedly an upgrade class of 10 scheduled for September. The contract here is pretty decent compared to what it was 2 years ago. We have about average pay (maybe slightly above average), cancellation pay, but work rules could use some work. The new DO has improved relations with the union dramatically. Again, I'm not saying TSA is better or Skywest is a bad company. I just wanted to get the correct information out about TSA. Most important thing is probably where you are based. If either company has a base where you live, you should probably go there. Commuting is something you want to avoid at all costs.

You are right, I apologize. I did assume you meant a quick upgrade by lots of movement. When I think movement, I think quick potential upgrade especially at a smaller company like Compass.

That being said, I agree that Compass is a good choice given the current circumstances, however my point was movement doesn’t mean anything at the time until you are sitting top on the list and its already happened. I went to my first regional during massive movement where upgrades were at 2 years, now there are 6-7 year FOs that may not ever see an upgrade.

Where did you get this FACT from? Six years? Really? This is the kind of info that you guys pick out of the air...kinda like butterflies.

BTW, I've not heard much out of the guy who was flapping his jaws about how Trans States would be shutting down about this time????

And nobody EVER tells the sources of their RELIABLE information. APC could be such a great place to help with your career if they'd make you have to use your real name instead of allowing you to be an anonymous blow hard.

Im getting that 6 year fact from apc airline profile. Most Jr captain according to the site is a 06 hire. Where are you getting your info? If you're a trans states pilot then enlighten me. What is the most jr CA at TSA, a 2012 hire?

With all the new regs coming, quick anything is a relic. It's a no brainer dude, goto SkyWest. You have a million bases to choose from, get treated waaaay better, and most likely upgrade sooner than you think. The reason I say this is Legacy Carriers are about to hire A LOT. Most will come from the Regionals. The bigger the Regional, the more pilots they will see move on (speaking strictly from a numbers point of view). If you have kids and a fam then yes, stay where you can live in base. If not, goto SkyWest. Good luck to you.

AnchorDown

I have to disagree with your math.

If you assume a fixed amount of people will leave a regional in the next 12 months, you have to assume that an equal amount of qualified applicants will be split evenly amongst each regional. If the legacy carriers hire 300 people in 2014, it isn't going to matter that Expressjet has 10x as many people as a place like Trans States. If you are qualified (with the exception of preferential interviews and flow throughs), you will be considered. In this case, the larger percentage of pilots leaving will be from a smaller operation.

If you go to a place like Expressjet, 2000 people have to retire or leave before you can even considered a left seat. At Trans States or Compass, it's 200.

Do you really think in 2-3yrs PIC time is going to matter?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. At XJT, we have more attrition by senior FO's (ASA side), L-XJT has had more Captains. According to our VP of flight ops, we lost 37 pilots from Legacy, and 16 from the ASA side in June '13. Is there other regionals coming close to this kind of attrition?

AnchorDown.

PIC time always matters. Lets say you do get on with a major without PIC time. Then 2 years later, an economic downturn hits or your airline goes bankrupt and now you are furloughed on the street. Not very marketable without any TPIC time.

That being said I'm sure 99% of people would jump ship at a regional to a major without having PIC time. But it could come back to haunt them. Just a thought.

They are upgrading 07 hires AND not far from being done with those. Hiring was S L O W for a few years, so not many 08 hires (if any). Not much hiring again until 12 (a few 09). There's a sizable gap from 07 to 12 and it wouldn't take much movement to be upgrading the 12's in a lot less than 6 years. There are guys hired in 12 who have the time to upgrade now so they probably won't even be around long enough to have to worry about it.

Huh? I know many furloughed United and American FOs that got jobs in corporate and street Captains with regionals, all without PIC. Besides, everyone will have ATPs soon so, it's a moot point. But if logging that column in your logbook gives you warm fuzzies, so be it.

Keep telling yourself that. When push comes to shove, unless you have tight connections, the guy standing next to you with PIC time when you dont have will get hired first