PIC type rating requirement for SIC
 

I posted this in the Major section but it is probably more relevant here.

Did anyone else get this memo?

Effective this month CFR 14 FAR 121.436(b) states:
"No certificate holder may use nor may any pilot act as second in command unless the pilot holds an airline transport pilot certificate and appropriate type rating for the aircraft being flown. A second-in-command type rating obtained under 61.55 does not satisfy the requirements of this section."

CFR 14 FAR 121.436(d) states:
"Compliance with the requirements of this section is required by August 1, 2013. However, for those pilots who are employed as second in command in part 121 operations on August 31, 2013, compliance with the type rating requirement in paragraph (b) is not required until January 1, 2016."

Has this already been discussed on here? Looks like another hurdle for 121 ops.

For the past two years all of the regionals have been giving pic types when the FO's go thru recurrent. If you don't have a pic type now your not legal

I always wondered why they put this on the certificate though...

THIS CERTIFICATE IS SUBJECT TO PILOT-IN-COMMAND LIMITATION(S) FOR DHC-8

OK. I didn't realize that. I wonder if the majors have been doing the same. It has been irrelevant at SWA until the Airtran deal.

I fly for a LCC and I don't have a PIC type. I probably won't have one before 2014.

At my LCC, all new hires are getting full types, and the existing FOs will be fully typed on their next scheduled recurrent.

Not correct; not all.. In fact only a small minority if regionals were PIC typing FO's.

This might be a limitation if it's your first PIC type rating.

FAA provided relief for FOs that had an ATP and SIC type. PIC type IF the certificate holder already has an ATP must be completed by 01/02/2016.

Only an issue if new to the 121 world or moving to a new airline, then SIC's will need a PIC type rating.

Not true - if you have an ATP before August 1st or whatever and you are already on property you have 2 yrs to get it. All new hires post rule change have to have ATP/Type combo tho.

So if I have a class that begins sept then the 121 that just hired me will type me? Thanx for the info- Ive heard conflicting opinions about the pic type req.

Yes your new airline should give you a PIC type since you were not with them flying as an SIC in August when the rule went into effect.

Thanx for the info

Reading comprehension!?!?!?

This raises an interesting conundrum for less desirable U.S. airlines. Joe Pilot can get hired at XYZ Lousy Airline, go through new hire training and then walk with a PIC type. While not for everyone, foreign carriers usually require a type for their more lucrative expat jobs. Seems like an easy way to get a free type and then bail.

Additionally does this mean SWA will drop the type rating requirement? What are the ramifications then to the various type rating schools around the country? I can't see anyone buying a 737 type rating again.

There's always fallout when the feds change a regulation.

That's why you are seeing more and more training contracts at the regionals. Requiring you to pay $$$ if you leave

Show me one training contract that has been enforced.

Makes sense but what if everyone collectively said no to training contracts? Do you think the regionals would just stop hiring? With 19,000 age 65 retirements coming in the next 9 years my guess is no, they won't stop hiring.

Most, if not all, will require 500 or more hours PIC (P1) time as well. An "empty" type rating is worthless overseas in most cases.

For a first officer position the mins for most overseas/contract carriers dont list PIC jet req. Only a Jet command rating (their language) and x amount of Jet time/weight of Aircraft/2 crew envir... etc.
Direct entry captains need PIC rating + 1000 pic jet time.

Why would this make any difference to the SW model of hiring? In the past pilots bought 737 ratings to show their interest in SW. In the future pilots will buy 737 ratings to show their interest in SW.

Fair enough, but the few (decent) f/o positions open to Americans overseas are pretty competitive - you'll not get in with an empty type. Either some PIC (P1) or a lot of P2 will be required. I'm sure there are some outfits / countries that'll pick you up, but it won't be much of a job. Some Japanese carriers and the UAE guys have some pretty good gigs; other than that ... :eek: ... at least AFAIK.

I started overseas at age 50+ and of course had enough P1. 500 PIC for a DEC is common - I've seen it as low as 100, but that was in 2007.

Basically there's no shortage of inexperienced f/o's (with type ratings and without) in most places, certainly in India.

Yep, the cost of the rating was never an issue; the initial training footprint is practically the same whether or not you have the rating.

I know when I went to my Trans States interview, they said they are still doing SIC type ratings for new hires.

That's odd, the last few classes everyone's been getting full types, as far as I know.

A more likely scenario is a training bond that is repaid out if wages. Or a bonus that is paid after a certain time.

In the future I could see that, but presently these training agreements are flimsy and haven't been enforced- that I know of...I do like the idea of the bonus since it may help with the crap pay at the regional level.

Great Lakes has, as best I can tell

PITTARD v. GREAT LAKES AVIATION, No.?05-230., April 24, 2007 - WY Supreme Court | FindLaw

Avoid Great Mistakes then. Its an SB anyway.

With everyone hiring en masse soon I bet the type requirement is dropped.

Your kool-aid mustache is showing...

IMHO the 737 type will remain in place at southwest as long as it is a desirable place to work. Funny how everybody expects a huge wave of hiring to solve all pilot inquietude. The truth is southwest was a joke 25 years ago. You only went there if a major wouldn't hire you. Legacy carriers have always used the cycle of bankruptcy as a tool to discharge debts from their bloated operations and when that cycle comes around the pilot pay piggy bank always bails out the bottom line.

Remember the one fact that illustrates the truth about our profession; the airlines as a whole have never made money. Not ever. Add up all of the balance sheets from all of the operators and it will always be a negative number. Feast while you can but save for a rainy day. True industry professionals are frugal and most are working on a second income (rental properties seem to be popular) to compensate for with scarce retirement savings or a plan that was taken from them just as they were winding up their careers. Flying is enjoyable and because you have the pilot bug you will always receive less than you should because there is always somebody else who will do your job for less.

So in laymans term, what exactly does "jet command rating" refer to for places like Japan that use such language?

Does it mean that Second in command (SIC) will suffice the requirements since SIC is also a command rating; or is it just another verbiage of saying PIC in their language?

PIC Type is what I was told by Parc

Which regionals aren't typing FO's. I was under the impression they all were.

thanks bro

Would be pretty nice to have a list of regionals that give PIC type along with training bond just like the way mods have set up "airline profile" on the homepage

I have recently interviewed at AE, Trans States, Xjet and Republic and all are doing unrestricted PIC Types for new hires. At AE they have a 2 year commitment if and only if you take the 5,000 signing bonus. If you don't take the bonus you can walk after your type ride but that would be pointless. At least get off IOE or better yet get off high mins.
Trans states and Xjet do not have a bonus or training agreement so you can walk whenever. Republic has a 12 month training agreement if you get the Q400 and a 24 month training agreement if you get the Ejet.