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Regionals Hiring "Foreign Nationals?"
Before I go any further, I want to make it clear that I refuse to name names, even the name of the regional that this is supposedly happening at.
I recently spoke with a buddy of mine who works in the training department of a regional. Apparently, they're so desperate to fill new-hire classes that the majority of the class going through indoc right now is made up of "foreign nationals." Is there anyone here, either on the line or in the training department of any regional who can confirm this? Or is this just the newest from the rumor mill? We all know what's next if this is true. Mods, feel free to move this if you think it belongs in another thread |
Do the foreign nationals have the correct paperwork (ie green card)? If so, I don't see a problem with that, but if they are sponsoring H1 visas, then I have a issues.
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No idea. Didn't get any other info beside the fact that the regional is paying for them to get their mins, and apparently suspending their pay on the line til it's paid off. No clue about the paperwork
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Originally Posted by A320fan
(Post 1501978)
No idea. Didn't get any other info beside the fact that the regional is paying for them to get their mins, and apparently suspending their pay on the line til it's paid off. No clue about the paperwork
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I believe it. Its happened before, a certain regional (2nd-3rd tier level) offered to bring people on board and process their greencard for them "later on". The event Im really familiar with happened in July 2007, at a PanAm facility in Miami during a job fair.
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If you can't name names, it's kinda hard to spark a genuine protest. I don't think it would make much sense for the company to pay to get these guy's to minimums(1500hrs) and then watch them exit stage left to return to their country of origin. That being said, I'm sure their minimums are much less then ours. Who knows.
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This has already happened in the maritime industry years ago... the regionals are the camels nose... ready to stick it all the way up to the majors.....
So quit thinking ALPA should't represent the regionals.... the real issue is pay... pay well enough and there will be plenty of American kids willing to fly jets.... Same with the doctor cadre in the US... ever wonder why the names read like a phone book from Mumbai to Kolkata to Seoul? Asians are great at compliance. (sorry asians)... And that is the kind of doctors the health insurance and drug companies want.... There is a reason why Airbus and Boeing jets aren't that hard to fly.... nations want their own people to fly their jets... but Wall St. wants those people to fly our jets too.... The plan, on the books for decades, is to keep wages low and erode PIC authority.... it's a complex battle that many of you don't even know exist..... |
I know of a handful of foreign airlines hiring American pilots. You have a problem with that too?
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Doesn't sound plausible to me. I can't see any regional that would go through the trouble of helping someone get a work visa. Plus, where is this foreign country with a larger pilot pool than the US? I've heard that foreign carriers have desperately tried to recruit US pilots but the other way around is unheard of.
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I agree with the above. The hassle for a regional is tremendous. The process is somewhat lengthy and costly, and the candidate wouldn't even be able to start class until the green card is out, due to TSA's security procedures in regards to training non-us citizens on aircraft of more than 12,500lbs.
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Hiring "foreign nationals" is nothing new every airline I have been at has had them.
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Originally Posted by longhauler
(Post 1502016)
Hiring "foreign nationals" is nothing new every airline I have been at has had them.
If they start sponsoring for work visas then we may have an issue... |
I don't believe pilot is a category of H-1 visa but even if there were they don't call it a "global pilot shortage" for nothing. Where are all these "foreign nationals" going to come from when there are literally thousands of US pilots already working overseas in these same countries? Nothing to see here. If this was a troll post well done. :)
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Originally Posted by exwaterski
(Post 1502033)
Where are all these "foreign nationals" going to come from when there are literally thousands of US pilots already working overseas in these same countries?
10 characters |
If you're not going to name the company, there's no point in posting.
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Spoke to a friend of mine at Republic and he said that they have a lot of foreigners being hired. FYI
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I don't think it's mesa, MAG is becoming the new retirement home/hospice, Not the INS processing center that it once was. I think they've maxed out there quota in '07 anyways. Besides just heard the most recent new hire class has been temp. Suspended due to the need to mismanage the staffing levels.:rolleyes: and get back into the RED.
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Originally Posted by exwaterski
(Post 1502033)
I don't believe pilot is a category of H-1 visa but even if there were they don't call it a "global pilot shortage" for nothing. Where are all these "foreign nationals" going to come from when there are literally thousands of US pilots already working overseas in these same countries? Nothing to see here. If this was a troll post well done. :)
Everyone who has a problem with me not naming names, please understand the position I'm in: I'm not in the airline industry yet. I'm a CFI, paying my dues and living on $10/hr just like everyone else did. All I'm looking for is confirmation from people currently in the industry about whether what I heard is true or not. That simple. Just trying to be careful with what I post on a public forum, that's all. |
Originally Posted by BrewCity
(Post 1502040)
Europe.
10 characters Hint: Eliminate first year pay. It won't solve the problem but it will buy some time. If I were Republic or Mesa I would already be doing this because their contracts depend on putting butts in the seats. Unless they'd rather pay two Captains to covering the flying a la Great Lakes. |
They might be foreign nationals with the right to work in the US. A resident permit or married to a US citizen...
or are these 'guest workers'..... meaning the only reason they are here is to work jobs that can't be filled.... and eventually they get residency or citizenship... not sure it has gotten this far... but... The A4A and other pro business groups will lobby congress for guest workers... anything to raise the bottom wages up.... |
Originally Posted by A320fan
(Post 1502085)
Not a troll post, but good to hear.
Everyone who has a problem with me not naming names, please understand the position I'm in: I'm not in the airline industry yet. I'm a CFI, paying my dues and living on $10/hr just like everyone else did. All I'm looking for is confirmation from people currently in the industry about whether what I heard is true or not. That simple. Just trying to be careful with what I post on a public forum, that's all. |
Originally Posted by Snarge
(Post 1502113)
They might be foreign nationals with the right to work in the US. A resident permit or married to a US citizen...
or are these 'guest workers'..... meaning the only reason they are here is to work jobs that can't be filled.... and eventually they get residency or citizenship... not sure it has gotten this far... but... The A4A and other pro business groups will lobby congress for guest workers... anything to raise the bottom wages up.... |
I didn't live on $10/hr, congrats if you can make that work...I guess.
It's interesting because I can see the benefit of our regionals hiring foreign, all as part of their "pilot cadet program", where they train and build hours, then maybe work for one of our regionals for a few years, then go back to their home country to fly A380s or whatever. Wouldn't benefit us (well, maybe it would mean highly disciplined pilots?) so much as that foreign carrier in the end. Given that our pilot groups are so weak and would never bind together to make a change in the industry "no matter what", we may lose the chance to some extent if this idea becomes commonplace. |
If you look at the hiring requirements for regional carriers, just about all of them state, as a prerequisite to apply:
"US Citizen or the legal right to work in the USA" So your buddy probably just misheard something. There are definitely foreigners flying for US carriers but they are either dual citizens or already have green cards. |
If we're to assume this rumor is true......
I'm not picking on your post exwaterski, just that yours seems to have most of the important points that others are missing.
Originally Posted by exwaterski
(Post 1502109)
The only possible reason a European would consider coming to the US is to get enough multi crew jet time to go to Emirates.
Originally Posted by exwaterski
(Post 1502109)
And most Europeans don't have a US ATP. Let's be crystal clear the problem is not a shortage of qualified pilots it's a shortage of qualified pilots willing to work for nothing.
Another possibility is one that it may be like the 90's. The Euro pilot job market sucks, there's opportunity in the U.S. Pilots from Europe are flocking to the U.S. to work because it's 1) Too expensive in Europe and 2) There's NO jobs. Only many of these pilots are now pretty experienced. AGAIN, that's assuming this rumor is all true. And if there is a shred of credibility to it, I'm guessing there were probably some foreign pilots that STILL held U.S. citizen/residency, had experience on the current crop of regional aircraft, applied, and were hired by a regional. The Then told their friends about it, so maybe 1 or 2 more came over. And boom, a rumor is born........ |
After going through the process of a greencard and the time it takes, i highly doubt the "shortage" has got to that point. The USCIS only has a set number of H1B visas they can give out each year and the employing company has to prove why they cant find an american to do the job. Hopefully this isn't someones misenterpretation of a foreigner already with a greencard or work visa getting a job and then someone with an axe to grind gets upset because it is seen as "taking jobs away from americans". There are plenty of american expat flying in my home country and other airlines around the world and it isn't looked at as such (of course there are some exceptions).
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Originally Posted by John Carr
(Post 1502131)
If we're to assume this rumor is true......
I'm not picking on your post exwaterski, just that yours seems to have most of the important points that others are missing. Possible, but I'm not sure if EK still has the weight restriction in place to apply. I can't remember EXACTLY, but the 50 and 70 seat aircraft don't meet that requirement IIRC. Of course, they could do as before, and drop that requirement if it's still in place. True. But again, assuming it's true, even in the slightest, I'm guessing it's along the lines of the following; These foreign/Euro pilots may have come to the U.S., to their U.S. ratings/certs, even to the ATP level, THEN gone back to Europe for the conversion to fly for a Euro carrier, taking the wife/spouse with them. Meanwhile, the wife/spouse is STILL a U.S. national so moving BACK to the U.S,. is an option. And AGAIN, IIRC, converting a JAA/JAR ATPL to a U.S./FAA is not nearly as difficult as the other way around. Another possibility is one that it may be like the 90's. The Euro pilot job market sucks, there's opportunity in the U.S. Pilots from Europe are flocking to the U.S. to work because it's 1) Too expensive in Europe and 2) There's NO jobs. Only many of these pilots are now pretty experienced. AGAIN, that's assuming this rumor is all true. And if there is a shred of credibility to it, I'm guessing there were probably some foreign pilots that STILL held U.S. citizen/residency, had experience on the current crop of regional aircraft, applied, and were hired by a regional. The Then told their friends about it, so maybe 1 or 2 more came over. And boom, a rumor is born........ |
Originally Posted by exwaterski
(Post 1502122)
Okay no offense but you really don't know what you're talking about. There is not a world full of ATP's beating down the door to come fly in the US for 20K a year. It's AMERICA that's a source of pilot labor for the rest world not the other way around. If it were so easy to generate experienced pilots out of thin air India and China and every Middle Eastern country would already be doing it they surely wouldn't be paying Americans and Brits and Aussies huge $$$ to fly their planes. And thinking they can attract European ATP holders to move to 'Murica and fly an RJ for 20K a year is laughable.
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Originally Posted by Snarge
(Post 1502163)
I am not talking today or perhaps five years.
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Originally Posted by CEFO
(Post 1502146)
After going through the process of a greencard and the time it takes, i highly doubt the "shortage" has got to that point. The USCIS only has a set number of H1B visas they can give out each year and the employing company has to prove why they cant find an american to do the job. Hopefully this isn't someones misenterpretation of a foreigner already with a greencard or work visa getting a job and then someone with an axe to grind gets upset because it is seen as "taking jobs away from americans". There are plenty of american expat flying in my home country and other airlines around the world and it isn't looked at as such (of course there are some exceptions).
Forget about H1B or any other "sponsor visa", it does not apply to airline training, this is one if the many policies put in place after 9/11. Unless you show up with a green card, you can't even attend new hire training on a 121 carrier. Can an airline sponsor an applicant for a GREEN CARD? Technically Yes, but it's really complicated due to many factors, expensive and many months of processing, finger printing, medical examinations, rounds of vaccines, etc, AND it can still be denied by the government, it's not an automatic deal. Now, if the government opens up a window for "guest workers" then that's a different story. But I doubt it will happen anytime soon... |
Originally Posted by exwaterski
(Post 1502149)
I can't dispute any of that but like you said we're probably talking about a small handful not near the numbers they need. And if I were a US regional I don't know if I'd want a significant number of my pilots being UK/Euro foreign nationals I suspect they would be much harder to enslave than the homegrown pilots.
But honestly, they're not that different than the already recycled regional pilots taking a job for currency, or the mil pilots that are taking the job for currency. The regional has ZERO reservation hiring them either. They simply need 1500+ hour bodies.
Originally Posted by exwaterski
(Post 1502149)
If they are just here to get experience and have few ties to the US I imagine a typical European would rather resign and go somewhere else than say move to an outstation base.
Originally Posted by exwaterski
(Post 1502149)
But this is all hypothetical I just don't see droves of Europeans wanting to come fly in the US it's a very different world from the 1990's. It's an interesting discussion but I just don't see it happening.
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Originally Posted by MrMustache
(Post 1501984)
Please say where this is.
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I imagine the big players will find a way to fill the seats but I don't see how the small players are going to avoid getting completely buried by the pilot shortage in the next couple of years. The Great Lakes of the world are going to have a tough time and it may be some of the small towns they serve simply won't have air service anymore subsidized or not. But at the risk of getting off topic if you think about it this is exactly what the law was designed to do and that is to bring 121 flying back up above the entry level. We'll see if they can leave it alone long enough to have it's intended effect.
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Can't get a part 121 flying job without being a lawful permanent resident first. Airlines are not going to nor would they be able to sponsor qualified applicants for a visa unless there is a clear "shortage" of applicants. Airline industry is no different to any other industry out there, lots of legal permanent residents working hard, paying tax.
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No one is going to post a "they took our jerbs" link or gif......maybe I am too old. If you don't get it ask your parents.
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Originally Posted by unclenobby
(Post 1502277)
Can't get a part 121 flying job without being a lawful permanent resident first. Airlines are not going to nor would they be able to sponsor qualified applicants for a visa unless there is a clear "shortage" of applicants. Airline industry is no different to any other industry out there, lots of legal permanent residents working hard, paying tax.
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Originally Posted by jayme
(Post 1502383)
Right. Plus, it takes months or YEARS to get the OK to work. The airline isn't going to do this. This is a moronic thread started by a guy worried he won't get his shot because the foreigners are stealing jobs.
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Originally Posted by John Carr
(Post 1502210)
I agree. It was just the point that there's Euro pilots looking for jobs, that have the time and ability to work/abode in the U.S.
Regardless, career destinations like VA and BA are hiring, so pilots with experience are moving on to places like that, not holding out for a job in the US. There are always exceptions, of course. Some have personal reasons for seeking employment in the US, but there is certainly no threat of European pilots flooding the US market. |
Originally Posted by atr42flyer:1502075
Spoke to a friend of mine at Republic and he said that they have a lot of foreigners being hired. FYI
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