Airline Pilot Central Forums - Preclearance Nonsense

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Tony (Post 1517405)

It's QANTAS, Quantas. "Research before you post"!

The OP is spot on. ALPA isn't just ignoring the regionals, ALPA is actively fighting against them. ALPA had a direct hand in both the Pinnacle and PSA debacles. Intentional effort by them to set the regional segment back 15 years in compensation. Then they have the audicaty to ask us for donations? Don't think so!

The PSA and Pinnacle pilots voted for those agreements. They could have voted them down. The regionals are contract carriers. They keep undercutting each other. The pilots keep voting to continue this in order to get that quick upgrade. I guess the policy is a poorly paid captain still makes more than a well paid first officer. I blame the regional pilots as much as ALPA for supporting these concessionary agreements and voting them in by over 80 percent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicholasblonde (Post 1517341)

I'm sure this has been said, but ALPA PAC reps are out and about in regional crewrooms asking for donations to stop the preclearance facility in the UAE.

Every single airline I am aware of in the UAE that hires US pilots pays significantly more money, treats pilots significantly better than any US airline, does not outsource flying or engage in sham bankruptcies to weasel their way out of contracts, provides better health insurance/childcare/housing/tax/educational benefits than any US airline, and basically raises the bar for all pilots worldwide by providing much-needed demand pressure on the worldwide job market and salary table for all pilots--especially in the USA.

I was a hardcore ALPA supporter when I first got into this racket, but after living through age 65, Pinnacle's sham bankruptcy, PSA's recent contract, etc. etc., and now as we see the union obsessively whining about their mainline masters having to compete head-to-head with Ethiad, I feel like ALPA has simply become a protection racket solely interested in protecting the jobs and compensation of an elite class of widebody captains at US legacy carriers--regional/young pilots are truly just sharecroppers they use as a sweatshop to keep their wages high and coffers full.

Asking starving regional FOs to donate money--above and beyond our dues--to prevent one preclearance facility in the UAE? How about you address the glaringly absurd fact that I fly a plane with a mainline name full of mainline passengers with mainline tickets for poverty wages--how about taking care of that first? How about the fact that we work under the RAILWAY labor act as PILOTS first? How about the fact it is nearly impossible to go on STRIKE anymore? Maybe work on those things with your legislative budget--maybe get pilots under the NLRB instead of the RLA--maybe do that and I'll donate to your PAC fund. But no--no ALPA--I'm not donating to something that will simply kill a potential job for a US pilot at Ethiad solely to protect you half-dead Grandpas and your 777 CA slots at a US legacy carrier--something you have due to luck and timing, and something you have aggressively lobbied to keep for yourself (i.e. age 65) at the expense of young people like myself.

Over it--just absoultely over ALPA and not wearing my lanyard anymore.

I was thinking the same thing when reading about this in the ALPA newsletters.
Makes me wonder who is going to protect us from ALPA destroying the industry from the bottom up. Yes Pinnacle/PSA voted. But ALPA had to sign off on it. They had plenty of opportunities to stop the negotiating so it never got to a vote. ALPA failed to act responsibly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1517535)

The PSA and Pinnacle pilots voted for those agreements. They could have voted them down. The regionals are contract carriers. They keep undercutting each other. The pilots keep voting to continue this in order to get that quick upgrade. I guess the policy is a poorly paid captain still makes more than a well paid first officer. I blame the regional pilots as much as ALPA for supporting these concessionary agreements and voting them in by over 80 percent.

How about 80% voted to keep getting paid while we try to get out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1517535)

I blame the regional pilots as much as ALPA for supporting these concessionary agreements and voting them in by over 80 percent.

Really? Even when ALPA colluded with regional management to put the pilot group in checkmate? Like when Lee Moak sat down on management's side of the table at Pinnacle and said "sign or you're shut down"? Really? It's all those miserable contractor regional pilots eh?

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Originally Posted by Captain Tony (Post 1517405)

You do understand that both PSA and Pinnacle voted for their respective contracts. The pilot groups negotiated and voted in favor of the contracts. Maybe if national stepped in, the games your pilot group is playing would be stopped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squawk87 (Post 1517502)

You have raised very concerning points.

It seems to me that our government outsourcing those international routes/scope to foreign airlines (for whatever reason).

So, basically ALPA is against outsourcing? Where exactly ALPA were when the majors decided to outsource half of its domestic flying?

All I am saying if ALPA wants more support from the regional pilots, it have to support us first!

So rather than attempt to prevent the UAE from slowly killing the legacy airlines, you'd rather pat yourself on the back for "sticking it to ALPA?" Good plan.

In terms of overall US pilot job protection, they have skin in the game. They need pilot jobs to skim dues money off of - or they'll be out of work right along side of us, since there's no way in hell the UAE airlines will allow any bargaining agent to represent their pilots, much less ALPA.

If you think a world where Emirates operates a lion's share of US domestic flights will be in any way good, you're high. Take a trip over to the "Foreign" section. There you'll find the pilots who work there complaining about the poor schedules that they have zero control of, and a few other problems. Is 200k you're price for turning over all control to a foreign airline? They tell you what you fly and when (no bidding), and impose all other "benefits" as a matter of policy that can be changed at any time. Work rules are the ICAO regs.

I agree there's a lot wrong with ALPA as a whole, but the interests that the PAC represent aren't one of them. The PAC and the representation department are completely independent of each other. Get mad at Moak and Bruce York about concessionary agreements - that's their area of specialty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1517535)

The PSA and Pinnacle pilots voted for those agreements. They could have voted them down. The regionals are contract carriers. They keep undercutting each other. The pilots keep voting to continue this in order to get that quick upgrade. I guess the policy is a poorly paid captain still makes more than a well paid first officer. I blame the regional pilots as much as ALPA for supporting these concessionary agreements and voting them in by over 80 percent.

It's a pretty ignorant statement to lump the Pinnacle agreement in with the PSA one, and an even dumber statement to say that Pinnacle voted yes for quick/any upgrades! More like voted yes for downgrades!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornbeef007 (Post 1517575)

With a gun to their heads. Hope you enjoyed that profit sharing check you STOLE from pilots who qualify for food stamps.

Typical "I got mine" mainline pilot. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornbeef007 (Post 1517575)

Another ignorant statement. The Pinnacle pilots/union did not negotiate ANYTHING. It was a "take this or be shut down, or get an even worse contract rammed down you throats by the bankrupcy judge who already said he would....

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornbeef007 (Post 1517575)

Take those votes with a grain of salt. Management has a tool they don't have at mainline. United or Delta can't say "take these concessions or we're gonna shut the doors." Nobody would buy that threat. But the fear of having to start over at another crap regional on first year pay is enough to swing a yes vote. Hence the Stop the Whipsaw movement.