A regional for life...
 

With the hiring picking up both in majors and regionals, I would like to know if there are senior pilots are who are happy to be at a regional level. If so, what are the pros and cons of that specific company? What made you want to stay for so long? This thread is different than the "Which regional(s) are the best"? So please don't close this thread. It's meant to help pilots who may be interested in just staying at a regional as a lifer.

I am personally at crossroads, where I'm at the ripe age of 30. Not young, not too old but I am starting my way into 121. I eventually want to work for a major but who knows what will happen within the airline industry. What is more important, to be CA as fast as possible at a smaller regional (GLA, G7, TSA, PSA, PDT) or build more experience via a longer seniority route with a larger regional with the likes of SKW, XJT, AE, RAH, Mesa? Do larger regionals command a more reputable credential for future interviews with the legacy airlines?

Get to the one that will give you the best QOL, if a major airline is your goal then that's what you need to pursue. Find the regional that is the best fit, good contract, good pay (ok, ok....better than bottom feeder pay) and a base that will hopefully work for the time being (they close all the time). Get in, learn something, get that PIC time, and get out while the getting is good...Now, back to your first question, but I'm not one to answer that.

I'm a 9 year SkyWest Captain, 33, married with 3 kids. I'm based at home, senior on reserve and don't get called a lot most months of the year. If I want some extra money I can fly on my days off. My wife has a very good job, so the extra money I would make working for a major isn't that big of a deal. Even bidding at 75% in my base I'm almost always able to get whatever days off I want. My QOL is awesome. This year I was able to play in 2 golf leagues, play on a baseball team, watch almost all of my daughter's softball games and I just signed up to be her assistant coach.
If I went to a major I would have to commute for at least a few years. I'd have to give up all of the activities, since most of them happen while I'm on reserve at home not getting called.
If I had to commute, or were stuck doing 4 day trips all of the time or got called on reserve all of the time it would change things and I'd most likely be trying to leave.

I'll give you a historical prospective. Back in the 80's and early 90's, there were several good commuter airlines that a guy could work for his entire career. Air Wisconsin, Horizon, Rocky Mountain Airways, and Comair were all places that had good pay and benefits. Here's the problem. You don't own your flying and you're at the mercy of your main line partner. How many carriers has United put out of business?

So here's the problem. A career at a regional is a high risk proposition. I can't see someone voluntarily spending a 35 year career at one. It can be done. The question is should you do it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You forgot Golden West...

Get your time in at a regional and get out. It's never a guarantee as the major may go under, but statistically it's far more likely to have a higher earning and more prosperous career at a major. The QOL and lifestyle at a major as a junior pilot is on par with a senior captain at a regional, and the monetary return continues far above an RJ captain. I'm a 7 year FO at a major and am making double what I was as an RJ captain...

Regionals are a dying breed. What will/has caused this?

1.) Consolidation of 3 legacies
2.) Flying being shifted back to mainline aircraft (which is great!)
3.) 50 seaters are out and being replaced by 70-80 seat aircraft. When this is
done, 1 70-80 seat aircraft can do nearly what 2, 50 seat aircraft can do.
Hence less pilots needed.

What is good today will not be good down the road. This business is ever changing. Go to a place where you can get TPIC time the fastest and then get out. TPIC is TPIC. For the most part, airlines that you are aspiring to go to down the road do not care about which airline you came from.

If you don't mind me asking, do you see yourself staying, or will you try to go elsewhere? Thanks.

Read the last sentence again!

Yes, I get what you are saying, but I guess I'm asking at such a young age is his/her mind made up? Are there other industry or life factors that might sway their decision? Given imminent industry movement and being that young I find the comment to be off the beaten path, but I respect their decision, and sharing their thoughts with the group.

Another reason I ask is that SKW seems* to have a lot of regional lifers (not meant to be derogatory), so maybe they could expand on their feelings about the company? I'm not trolling, I just finds other points of view interesting.

*This is just what I have heard. If it makes people feel better, I've gotten a similar impression from other regionals.

With 30+ years left in my career it would be hard to say I'm committing to being a lifer here. I have no desire to leave in the near future but I am constantly evaluating that decision. There's always change in this industry, who knows what SkyWest will look like in 5, 10, 20 years. Up until a year or so ago I was trying to leave. It was the increase in QOL that made me want to stay.

I'm an ex-Comair guy at G7.


There are several guys junior to me that were 25+ years at OH. If that isn't incentive enough to go to a major ASAP, I don't know what is.

There's 2 lessons to be learned here....

1) don't aspire to be a regional lifer ( unless you have extraordinary circumstance like a Doctor spouse)

2) Be nice/respectful to your FO's because they could easily be your Captain someday. Or be on a hiring board, or be a connection to a better job.

I was at the FAPA Job Fair in Orlando in Nov 2012. There was a guy there in his late 50's early 60's, a former Comair CA with 34,000 Hrs.

Wow.... 34,000+ hrs.. And he was looking for a job..

Now I don't know what his personal circumstances may have been but No matter how bad the last decade or 2 may have been, Do you think that he never got a chance to get to a more stable major job in those 34000 hrs....??

So, to the OP, do you want to be like that guy 30, 35, 40 yrs later....?

I appreciate your time and answer. Thanks!

Probably wound up in the right seat of a CRJ 700 at Gojet for $20k a year flying the exact same aircraft he once commanded for $100k.

What a Fu*ked up industry!

Look at Ameriflight. The 135 cargo world is a great way to get turbine PIC time right away and a great flying experience. The job is tough but I feel much more confident after doing some single pilot IFR flying. It's a good company that won't force you to do anything illegal or unsafe.

excellent thread, initial posts and responses. assists with the review and decision making process, which can be very different for each pilot depending on factors and variables involved--age, marital status, kids, family income/expenses, housing, location, activities, airline operations/bases, CA/FO and more, all of which changes with time.

No, the lesson to be learned is don't go to work for a Delta owned regional, especially if the pilot group ****ed off big D by daring to go on strike for better pay and benefits!

Please tell me your not trying to throw Comair guys under the bus?

Sure, Delta shut down Comair in September 2012 because the pilots went on strike in March 2001.

I guess they didn't shut us down 11 years sooner because that wouldn't be polite. :confused:

Uh no, I'm saying what Delta did sucks!

Delta couldn't afford to lose all your flying, and couldn't replace you overnight. The same holds true for Endeavor and PSA, but management somehow keeps convincing flight crews to take it in the shorts, while they keep increasing their own pay, benefits, and bonuses for every cut they manage to "sell"!

Whoa Nelly... this thread is starting to spiral. I like the idea of staying at a regional long term. The bases are usually smaller, crews are certainly smaller and you fly together for the whole trip. You fly to small towns and get to know the gate agents and even the hotel van drivers. The hotels aren't always as nice but it seems like they give you more, like beater bikes to explore around town. That's what I miss the most about regional flying. What I can't tolerate is that first officer pay is not sustainable. Never has been and everyone knows it. It's the gorilla in the corner of the room. We pretend to ignore it because we convince our selves that an upgrade is just a short wait away. We're our own worst enemy. The bright eyes of young new pilots reflect the same public misperception that airline pay is based on the staggering salaries of wide body captains. The painful truth is that even if you're fortunate enough to get there, when you average out the long years the pay is far less. This explains why an airline pilot can track down a happy hour, free breakfast or USA Today from miles away.
Another point dully noted is that regional flying (although at one time its own brand) is now a subsidiary of a larger carrier. So the flying done today by one regional could be taken away when the contract ends to the next lowest bidder.
But where do you draw the line? Midwest Express was an airline with a great product and loyal customers and it was not a regional. Is it a risk to pursue a boutique airline because you want to live in a certain region or you prefer a smaller airline culture? Is it safer to work for a giant legacy... to have power in numbers? What about the giants of yesterday such as Pan Am, Eastern, TWA? How much impact does a CEO or board of directors have on your career?
I think the answer is, you're never safe. We are all free agents and even the best of intentions could be dashed away by bankruptcy, a bad merger or another Lorenzo-type spin off taking command of your company.

^^^^^^^^ That's a damn fine post chief

As someone that's seen my "career" at a regional go about as good as it could over the last 13-14 years, I'd strongly recommend that you get to/move onto a Legacy type airline as soon as possible. The pay and benefits are significantly better at mainline.

Even nearing year 15 pay as a RJ Captain at SkyWest, I'll make less than most FOs at Delta and United in their 2nd or 3rd year. And they'll get nearly 3x the retirement contribution I'll get as well.

I've even advocated for the "regional lifer" position in the past, but now believe that was a mistake.

--my perspective as someone that's been in the left seat of a RJ now for a decade, in the top 10-15% of the seniority list, gets a pretty good schedule, and hasn't seen reserve in 8 years. I'd trade it for the bottom number on someone else's list now.

That's an epic John Terry meme.

I'd like to buy you a beer.

Are there any regionals that are growing as opposed to shrinking?

Great post.

Flying, you just have to go with your best intuition. No one has a crystal ball, and as others have stated, this industry changes all the time. What's today's darling, is tomorrows dog.

And to Viper, very big congrats to you. But, what happens if your wife looses her job for any reason (god forbid)? Just things to think about.

They go in cycles. The ones growing today will be shrinking (or BK) in a few years. That's the way the system is supposed to work. You hungry pilots (most looking to build time for the majors) will work for cheap. After they've been there a few years, get tired of ramen, get married, kids, mortgages, college to save for, etc they naturally expect more money...at least more than food stamp wages. At this point the major partner shifts the flying to a new group, which can hitre young hungry pilots off the street.

As for the old pilot group? They can try to get jobs at majors, start over as an FO at another regional, or go to take a flying leap...it's all good as far as management is concerned.

The problem with this whole scheme today is that with the RJ boom there are now a lot more regional pilots than there are available mainline jobs.

Whatever the answer is, it'll be the opposite in just a few short years. My regional doubled in size when I was there. Now, even after merging with 2 other regionals, the total pilot count is falling down to what it was when I left.

Unless you're 55, planning to hang your hat at a carrier that makes it's money off of outsourced flying is a poor career investment.

Whichever regional grows today will shrink tomorrow. As 80kts already pointed out, unless you're old it's in your best interest to get your time and get out to a LCC/Major/Legacy.

If it only it were as easy as you two make it out to be. There is a reason places like Emerald Coast exist, major jobs are VERY hard to come by.

This post is not only excellent (thank you by the way), the profound truth of it is frightening. It is difficult to conclude this career will never truly be stable because we've invested so much into it.

Can we even call this a career then? Doesn't the word "career" express the idea of one exercising their profession in a steady predictable manner of progression? Doesn't the word convey improving one's position in life over time as they advance in their "career" Doesn't the idea of career and some semblance of stability go hand in hand?

I contend that the idea of a "career" for everyone, is a relatively novel concept anyway, and may not have a lasting place in history. Careers have existed forever, but in history only a small percentage of the elite have enjoyed them. The rest were simply workers - and they have always been expendable. We don't have careers - we have a skill set with which to work.

The men & women who hold our fate in their hands are the ones with careers. No?

Get out while you are still relatively young. If you wait a few years to finally make the move then you will be wishing that you had done it sooner. Delta is gearing up to hire 600 a year. Most legacies have significant retirements in the next decade. The longer you wait, the more people get ahead of you. I was a decent line holding captain at a regional when i left. I do not regret leaving for a second.

A friend of mine went to DL in 2008. He lives on the west coast. He is constantly getting bumped from bases and equipment. Right now he's based at JFK I think on the MD88. Sometimes he gets work blocks that are not commutable on either end and not able to go home between trips, commuting in the day before a 4 day, sitting in the crashpad for 2 days between trips, doing a 2 day then going home the next day. This has been going on for 5 years. Sure he makes more money than I do, but what's the point if he never has time to enjoy it? I'm sure sometime down the road he will have a great QOL and make more than twice what I make. I'd rather watch my kids grow up and make less money. If things go downhill at SkyWest, yes I will have missed the boat at the majors but I'd rather miss the boat with an airline than miss it with my family.