Fatties dodged a bullet...for now...
 

November 22, 2013FAA’S POLICY STATEMENT ON SLEEP APNEA: UPDATEYesterday’s*FastRead*(November 21, 2013) notified the membership that ALPA was aware of the FAA’s new policy on obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) and that we were engaging the FAA and industry on this matter. ALPA has maintained a steady dialogue with FAA and industry stakeholders. As a result of our follow up with the FAA’s leadership, we were informed today that the*proposed*policy statement on OSA is just that and no more;*no decision has been made by the FAA to implement the OSA policy statement. ALPA has requested that the FAA send out a bulletin to their Aviation Medical Examiners (AMEs) as soon as possible to affirm the fact that no policy change has taken place. We continue to collaborate with FAA and other industry stakeholders who share our concerns with the OSA statement.Despite the FAA’s stance, it has come to ALPA’s attention that some AMEs may be proceeding with new body mass-related sleep apnea screening protocols and may proactively seek to determine whether a pilot suffers from OSA as part of a medical certification exam.Any ALPA member who is told that they must have a mandatory sleep apnea assessment in accordance with the FAA’s policy statement should report it to ALPA’s Aeromedical Office at*1-866-237-6633.To learn about OSA, its effects, treatments and more, visit the*U.S. Department of Health & Human Services website. ALPA will provide additional information about the status of our OSA efforts as it becomes available.

I about choked on my pizza..

No surprised. Figured something like this would happen as soon as the lobbyists for the alphabet groups and the airlines got cranking. This was the scene in the FAA administrators office as soon as this was announced:

The sh**ts gonna hit the fan - Airplane - YouTube

And they absolutely should. There is zero basis for requiring every airman to be tested for OSA. Especially without seeing the effects of part 117 first.

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat...dia/201304.pdf

They're going after the restless leg syndrome pilots next.

There is a definite basis to assume a fatty has a sleeping disorder. People are fighting this because the unions don't want to lose dues. I really hope some legislation goes through to combat the obese pilots.

Notice I didn't say there wasn't a basis to test fat pilots for sleep apnea. I said there is zero basis for having EVERY airman tested for sleep apnea.

A guy with a BMI of 40 or greater should probably be tested. But to announce that you'll continue to drop the cutoff and eventually test every airman is over reach.

40 is HUGE.

Title of this post is hilarious!

God, you should hear all the fat basses at my airline complaining about how 40 or greater is just "big boned"..... f*ck!

I'm 5'11" and 39.9 BMI is about 286lbs!

Sleep
 

Just remember boys and girls, one in three people have Sleep Apnea regardless of neck size or weight.

701EV

Wow! Any fattie who can dodge a bullet must be in superb physical condition, and should be excused from these tests. :D

I concur! :D

Yup.

I'm also 5'11 and weigh 180lb...which gives me a BMI of 25.1.

Anything 25 or greater is considered "overweight". :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm going to preface my comments with the fact that I am in shape so this isn't me being defensive.

Why do YOU care how much a person weighs? This isn't a physical job anymore than am accountant so being "in shape" is optional. Why are you all so eager and excited to see people potentially lose their certificates and/or fork out an obscene amount of money to continue to be able to work?

I'm a little overweight and I think there should be some sort of "testing" for morbidly obese pilots... But going by the BMI is not the way to do it. I haven't even heard a medical professional refer to BMI since middle school it's so outdated.

Alcohol and tobacco use on your private time will next.
They will come to your home at any time without advance
notice, and you must provide a sample, all in the name
of "safety".

Come on. You know the real reason why. These guys figure every senior guy they weed out is another seniority number closer to their wide-body left seat wet dream.

Its the same reason they were howling about the Age-65 rule.

I don't like the FAA coming up with an arbitrary policy change that makes pilots guilty of OSA until proven innocent, based on a metric (BMI) that has widely known and acknowledged flaws.

That said, obesity is a major public health issue in this country...and we've all seen the walking heart attacks (of all ages) waddling into cockpits around this country.

There are THOUSANDS of pilots that would do themselves a huge long-term benefit by losing 10-20 pounds, reducing blood pressure and glucose in the process (both of which are major issues for professional pilots). I halfway think this very public notice was a not-so-subtle shot across the bow by OKC, knowing it would never go into effect, to get people to make healthier decisions of their own accord.

Agreed. My point was that this was so out of line that once all the alphabet groups got their lobbyists going this policy would change. I expect their will be some kind of obesity/sleep apnea policy, but will be limited to those that show obvious symptoms and have BMIs above 35 or 40, although I could see it going to 30 as it appears that is the likely target for the BMI police.

That being said, those of you cheering this on better be careful. You guys that are skinny as a rail but have to run to the bottom of a jetbridge because you are feigning for a cigarette after every leg? Well I've seen more of those guys keel over dead from a heart attack than I ever have seen from sleep apnea. So you could be next. You guys that are rushing to get to the hotel in time for a beer before the 12 hour rule hits? Hey 30% of drinkers are hard core alcoholics so even though you don't show any signs of being one, we'll just have to suspect you are one because you enjoy the occasional beer.

My point here is this could open a pandoras box of big brother nosing his way into your private life and it may go in directions that you really may not like. We're all big boys (no pun intended). As long as you pass your blood pressure, sugar, and other general health observations that should be enough. Obese people will have other issues besides sleep apnea that will cause them to have problems on medicals. Cheering the FAA on to go after the "FATTIES" may sound good, but allowing the FAA to go on fishing expeditions just because someone "might" have a problem is a bad idea that could come back to haunt everybody.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...ps45eac92c.jpg

BMI..

This guy is morbidly obese according to modern BMI standards...

Just sayin, it's a flawed metric.

As long as the CAT RANCHERS get tested as well..... bring it on.... Of course I know few CAT RANCHERS with a BMI south of 60..... just sayin

Agreed, but 30 is still pushing it IMO, and I'm inside 30. I could see 35 and up though.




Agreed again. 100%.

But we want skinny attractive flight attendants.

That's why you go to work for Etihad or Emirates. Say what you want about them, but they do have smoking hot flight attendants.

Dude, look at all the funny bumps that guy has all over his body. That guy must be sick or something. He's all swollen up. I hope he gets better soon.:eek: Besides, all his fat is in his cankels. You just can't
see it in that picture.:p

I know three pilots that have had to jump throught their ass to keep flying due to OSA, all three USAF guys, all three in superb shape.

+ 1,000.. What this ^^ guy said.

My guess is these same people would be 100% okay with extending the age after they got there. After all, they got theirs.

CLEARLY the majority of pilots are built like that, so we need to take those kind of BMI exceptions as a frequent occurrence in airline population.

This.

An outlier is an outlier.


The "but, but, but.... MIKE TYSON and CAM NEWTON!" excuse is lame. If any airline pilot was built like that, they'd be getting paid a heck of a lot more to punch people in the head than they currently get for flying airplanes.

I know a whole lot of pilots who lift, especially ex military guys.

Most of them had to dilute their weightlifting with lots of cardio to stay on the winning side of military PT tests, but as civilians I know lots of pilots who are big with muscle.

Blood pressure does a pretty good job of this. If only we took blood pressure....

I wouldn't exactly call those guys healthy or "fit". Some of them maintain a balance and some of them go bat **** crazy trying to "build muscle". They can't run a couple miles, participate in things like rock-climbing or compete in ironmans, because they've focused so much on one aspect. There are medical problems associated with doing this, from the supplements and the disproportionate muscle bulk.

In any case, this is just like one of those yahoo articles where "plus sized models" with no tone or general fitness are featured, and then every fat lazy woman on the planet comes into the thread to defend them. Course the "difference" here is that we are mostly guys, but defending a sedentary lifestyle is a lost cause IMO. We weren't made to sit in cockpits for 10hrs a day. That doesn't mean we can't do that and still be healthy, but it takes a certain commitment. The commitment is lacking in many cases. Should it be regulated? I'm not sure, but it's funny to see pilot's complain that rest rules and fatigue are more of an issue and that they should be treated more fair in this respect. If that was really the case, wouldn't we have put our foot down years ago and refused to work until fair and safe work rules were imposed? I don't want the FAA coming in and regulating every aspect of aviation, but this would seem like one of those areas where we only have ourselves to blame?

Evan Stone or Ron Jeremy.... Who cares, they both get a lot more clam and clams than I do....

This.

Right now its easy to jump on the bandwagon that anyone with a BMI 40 or more is really fat, and needs to get in better shape, stop eating crap, etc. But what about when they lower that threshold as they have stated they intend to?

Also, its not like the BMI measurement is full of scientific credibility or anything. It kind of reminds me of the whole Air Force waist measurement PT test debacle. A lot of people who work out and are fit and muscular have BMI's in the overweight and even some in the obese ranges. Also, a lot of people with normal BMI's in poor health and fitness.

Even if they make the cut off at a BMI classified as 'overweight' that is going to force a lot of people who are otherwise healthy, and many gym-goers to pay for a really expensive test to prove they are fit to fly. I guess pilots better stay away from Crossfit and the weight room (at least until they upgrade to captain and can afford the test :D)

5'8" and 230lbs....I guess the fact that I'm 47 years old says I'm a fatty...but the 1500lb leg press, 405lbs free squat, 405lbs bench press, and 60 minutes of cardio helps keep that waistline in check...but if the FAA says I'm too fat to fly...Long term disability here I come...wahoo!

I'm sorry but I must be confused. I didn't realize as regional airline pilots, we are fighting the war and need fit people. If you weigh 280lbs, fine. Who cares. So you say there are health implications? I have a friend who, at age 18 and in the best shape of his life had a stroke. Another friend whose dad, a marathoner died of a heart attack at work. Just because you don't like the way someone looks or eats, if they fall within the regulations with respect to blood pressure, diabetes, and what ever else, they are healthy. Looking for reasons to make pilots skinny is ridiculous.