Part 117 Rest Rules
 

Just wondering how the new rest requirements are affecting your schedules for next month. At 9E on the 900 we have almost 40 reserve lines for 130 pilots. About a 30% increase for the same amount of flying as December.

I love the new rest rules. I've always complained tht I make too much money, home way too much, and never have gotten enough time to really fully enjoy some of our fantastic hotels. 22 hours in Fayetnam tomorrow nite. Gosh I can't wait! And all these three day trips will allow me to spend more time each month commuting and meeting all the new and interesting people in ohare and the back of the plane. Merry Christmas!

Yes this job just took another big nose dive into the suck category, why anybody would consider "airline pilot" as a career option is beyond me.

Is it so hard to give a hard line for rest behind the door? 9-10-11 hrs would've been fine. Now we need a damn flow chart to figure out if we're legal to fly :rolleyes:

On the Endeavor side our PBS committee puts out "mock" scheduled and they are awful. We are actually working more now. On average, lines have increases by almost 20 hours and days off have disappeared. As a 7 year FO I average 18 off a month, now its 12 unless you're in the top 20%. We dramatically increased reserve which forces flying up the list. I think this was a major fail. There are lines with nothing but uncommutable 4 day trips with two days off in between. How is that an improvement?

I don't understand why we can't do more than three early shows in a row. Some people are morning people and if your body is acclimated to early shows it isn't bad. Now we have trips with a 5:00 am show day one a noon show day 2 with a release at midnight, a noon show day three for a quick turn then a 5 am show day 4. This is way more fatiguing then going to bed and getting up at the same time 4 days in a row.

Can you give an example of what your duty day and show times look like for a given week? I'd like to see it if you don't mind posting it.

Woohoo, 19 hour 4 day with 38hours in Vermont!

fr 3840 dtw-tvc 1155 1306 111 104 25
fr 3840 tvc-dtw 1331 1450 119 105 45
fr 3784 dtw-atw 1535 1601 126 123 27
fr 3784 atw-dtw 1628 1854 126 117 122
fr 3448 dtw-btv 2016 2205 149 139 711 0 628 0 1110 btv 3735
d-end: 2220l rept: 1155l
su 3598 btv-dtw 1225 1433 208 157 52
su 3474 dtw-mdt 1525 1650 125 124 25
su 3474 mdt-dtw 1715 1904 149 133 41
su 3995 dtw-azo 1945 2046 101 51 623 0 545 0 906 azo 1039
d-end: 2101l (rr 900) rept: 0740l
mo 3622 azo-dtw 0810 0924 114 54 101
mo 3670 dtw-gso 1025 1212 147 137 25
mo 3670 gso-dtw 1237 1430 153 142 50
mo 3936 dtw-abe 1520 1648 128 126 25
mo 3586 abe-dtw 1713 1905 152 145 814 0 724 1 1140
d-end: 1920l (cr 1200) --------------------------------------
totals block 2148 dhd 0 credit 1937 t.a.f.b. 8010

Part 117 Rest Rules
 

How is your block 21:48 but you credit 2+ hours less than that?!?

I was wondering the same thing. I was also wondering why you don't get any credit for the Sat. in BVT. Do you not have any kind of min. day credit?

Most regionals dont

We have a 4 hour min day, but for some reason they only show it in our payroll software. It hurts us that it is not in the trip credit because it basically forces us to work more. Needless to say I am very disappointed in 117.

This is why there is so much more to contracts than just hourly rates. Thankfully QX has trip rigs or I'd be crediting about 3 hours less on this trip.

Got it. How come it shows less credit than block time?

Gojet does. 4 hours.

For a calendar day though. So let's say you are scheduled to block in on a Monday night at 23:46. Add 15 minutes of 'debrief' time to that it becomes 0001 on Tuesday. That counts as having worked on Tuesday and the 4 hours doesn't get applied. Even if you block in early payroll would deny it because it was 'scheduled' to be that way.

Needless to say, a lot of days finish at or after 2346 when followed by an extended overnight.

A pilot would get 4 hours of credit for the time spent in btv in the above example though.

We have leg values that the company uses for credit but for some reason the average block times don't match the leg values. We are paid leg value or better and its usually a little bit more than scheduled.

That's just a min daily credit a lot of regionals have that I think people are referring to trip rigs which apparently a lot don't have.

At ZW I got 16 days off. And the last 8 days of the month off so should be able to pick up a 4 day easily at time and a half and credit well over 100 hours and still have 12+ days at home. I'm pleased so far

Funny, last year, you commuter pilots were crying for these new rest regs. You got what you wished for! :D:eek:

Horizon has been using most of part 117 rules to build trips for some time now. Our scheduling committee actually builds the trips and lines for the pilots. Even though we haven't had scheduled short overnights for a long time we are still seeing more 30hr overnights popping up. For those of you who had scheduled 8-10 hour overnights and no TAFB rigs your average pay per day is probably going to go down a bit. :(

If the schedule builders at your airlines didn't spend much time playing around with the new rules then they are going to produce some cra**y trips. However, once they have a little time to play around and tweak the trips there will most likely be some improvements.

Well I'm sure having two tired FedEx pilots screw up a visual into Japan didn't help...

:D:eek:

You aren't anything more than a troll. Those two guys deserve a line guy at their company better than you.

You all didn't really think more rest meant more rest at home did you?

To this point, I will be curious to see how 117 affects hard days off.

Probably 90% of overnights on the 200 at Endeavor were scheduled less than 11 hours off. January lines are going to be horrid. Lots of 4 days with over 30 hours in a hotel are in the pairings for January.

But you guys have duty/trip rigs correct?

Ha, no. 4 hour min day. So 38 hours in Charleston, WV pays 4 hours, which will be spent on a cab to not go crazy.

That's better than we have at Eagle, 38 hrs in Charleston, WV pays 60 bucks in perdium... Hey at least it's tax free ;)

They did. 10 hours min rest. 8 hours must be considered uninterrupted.

That's why you have PTO, be prepared to use it as part of your schedule building.

FAR 117 is a total joke. It is nothing but political theatre which does little to nothing to enhance safety. It doesn't matter how long your layover is. If you live on the west coast and have 4 am shows east coast time fatigue will always be an issue, unless you can goto bed at 6pm your time to get 8 hours of sleep for the 4 am show. All these rolling windows are straight up retarded. Reduced rest was a nessecary evil to have more efficent/better paying schedules.

Now instead of reduced rest we get to rot in crappy outstations for an entire day and get less days off just to get the same pay we could have had with occasional reduced rest. Given the choice between spending 30 hours in some craphole or sucking it up for one night and doing reduced rest I take the reduced rest every single time.

But but but... Now the travelling public will have less to fear when getting on a small plane with "poorly trained" inexperienced pilots. They might have had 30 hrs off at the outstation but when you had to moonlight at Arby's so you can afford this so called career, I'm sure we'll all be well rested...

FAIL

The saddest part of all of this is, for just pennies we could make a livable wage and not have to be gone 18 days a month. Good thing we thought of the children.

Take up a collection and then have a full page article printed in USA Today.

Our schedules will go to hell at Republic (US Airways and American).

Pretty much all our trips are now about 5 hours avg daily credit. There are a few exceptions, but avg credit is WAAAY down, commutability is going to sh*t, and as a consequence of our company insisting we continue to work 85+ hours a month, even senior folks will be down to 13-ish days off (versus the contractual min of 12).

Yeah that's bad. Senior and 13 days off ... awful. Definitely keeping my career options open that's for sure.

Problem is that you can't consistently work more than 83 hours a month or you will go over 1,000 in a rolling 12 months. 83*12=996 So you will see your block hours drop to around 80 a month for their "scheduling buffers". Either that or your schedule will have more deadheads so your credit will be the same but your block will be down.

Just wait till the staffing crisis at the regionals meets head on with 117's requirement to carry more pilots. I'd imagine this summer will be pretty interesting if the majors and lcc's are pulling 300 a month or more from the regionals.

Yeah, that coupled with an ever dwindling pilot pool. Ought to be very interesting.

So most lines out there are going down towards min days off for most?

This is what nobody seems to be talking about. It's now a rolling 12 months instead of a calendar year. Could make things really interesting at the regionals.

I equate FAR 117 to daylight savings time. Looks good on paper, may make you feel a bit better psychologically, but at the end of the day it is pointless and doesn't do anything useful.