How is FAR 117 (the new rest rules) going?
 

So, I'm not working today and have made the jump from regional 121 to 135 so it wouldn't affect me anyways buuuttttt... just wondering how the first day of FAR 117 is going. Any meltdowns? Pandemonium? Angry mobs? Tell your stories here.

Completed 2 legs, canceled 4. A 39 hour rest in a small Midwest city.

Chautauqua (and RAH with it) tried to tell us that they were the most prepared airline for 117....desire never running mock bids or anything. 13% cancelation today

Day three of a 4 day ..... Haven't own yet due to this north east weather .... Word is I ll fly the last leg of my trip on day 4 .... EWR airport is a hot mess / riot ..... LA riots don't have anything on EWR last night when they cancelled my San Juan flight at 12:30am

how is FAR 117 going?
 

Hey guys, I'm oblivious to the way it works in the US as I am on a salary in Australia, but I know you get paid per flight hour... Does that mean if weather (or operational reasons) cancels your flights you don't get paid?

I'll tell you the answer if you switch jobs with me.

Varies by airline and even within airlines it may vary between reserve, linehlolders, premium pay and striaght pay trips.

In other words its extremely complicated - good contracts will pay protect Pilots at 100% pay. Some of the lower end contracts have no pay protection so cancelling a flight could cost the crew big $$$$$.

Sorry but no easy answer to your question.

G'Day Mate :)

Scoop

As somebody said, it's pretty complex, and varies by the company. As a rule though, yes, most everyone still gets paid if the flight cancels.

It's been going great. I'm about 5 for 8 on signing the friggin' fatigue statement so far. That's 62.5%. D for Diploma!

After tonight I will have flown 35 hours in 7 days.

Republic Airways Holdings, NOT on that list... Happy 117 everybody! :D

Hahaha nice! I'm 2 for 2 but let's see how many times I punch the wrong info into my shiny new alpa 117 app, or forget altogether...

I completed my entire day, ended on time yet didn't have a single on time departure all day.

This is about the norm out of IAD though....I could hear other crews timing out on ops though.

Do they have a D-0 delay response for 117 manual acars form?? Or inept management making sure this was done on EVERY aircraft. If so.. enter that every flight for the day! 0 for 4.

A lot of porn sitting around my hotel all day, for six days in a row.

Well, I'm stuck in chicago for 3 days... So I think it's going pretty well... 12 hrs of pay for playing video games and using the hotel gym...

I think you just outed yourself, at least to me haha.

I haven't even checked in for my 4 day yet starting tomorrow and I'm already showing 7 canceled legs on my trip sheet..

From weather or illegal schedule?

This is a disaster.

Yikes guys, sounds rough.

Regarding the 117 rules, hopefully rostering will be adjusted ASAP to ensure both crews and customers aren't put out because of these rules.

P.S. 35 hours in 7 days!! Yikes! I did 35 hours in 24 days last month.

Ha, I didn't think there was anyone left on these boards who I wasn't "out" to. There's a guy who, whenever he sees me at the airport, always yells "Teeeeee BUCKKKEEEEEET"

I treat APC like Fight Club, the first rule is…
http://i.imgur.com/5fxNy9z.gif

Actually that's acceptable performance numbers for the airlines. You are doing great son!

Seriously, is the meltdown this weekend due to weather or 117? I think it's a crappy coincidence that 117 hit the same time as the worst weather in a decade. But the scheduling uncertainty with no longer able to do LTF didn't help.

To answer the OP, I had twice as many flights cancel than I actually flew. Mostly due to the weather but several were due to lack of crews.

Im sure RAH is loving it.

This is the biggest cluster**** I've seen.

Timed out 2 nights in a row and canceled 1 flight, would have been two but a legal to fly commuter flew it. Turned a 4 day into a 5 day......Disaster.....

Anyone understand this:

§ 117.19 Flight duty period extensions.

(a) For augmented and unaugmented operations, if unforeseen operational circumstances arise prior to takeoff:

(1) The pilot in command and the certificate holder may extend the maximum flight duty period permitted in Tables B or C of this part up to 2 hours. The pilot in command and the certificate holder may also extend the maximum combined flight duty period and reserve availability period limits specified in §117.21(c)(3) and (4) of this part up to 2 hours.

Does it mean we have to agree to an extension?

No, May and Must have two different legal meanings. Only Must requires you to comply. May allows you to decide.

I believe I understand what you are asking here and yes you are correct, to be extended beyond your FDP on table B you and the certificate holder must agree to the extension. The certificate holder is not tasked with accessing the situation and determining if it's smart to do this extension beyond just if it's legal. You must determine that you are fit for such extension. This is why both crew members now must certify before every flight that they are fit for duty. If the company asks for the extension and you decide that you don't want to then the flight doesn't take place with you at the controls but it's not a fatigue call. Now it says the PIC but I don't think there are many CA out there who would say sure go ahead and extend us without consulting with the FO. As an FO you always have the chance to not declare fit for duty and deny the extension yourself. But there are airlines who don't have cancelation pay so suspect we will se folks pushing for extensions.

What really irks me is that the airlines have had 2 whole years to prepare for this, yet they act like it has caught them by surprise. They've had plenty of time to be ready, yet they seem to have done little to nothing to implement it smoothly.

"JetBlue flights have been severely delayed or canceled since Friday due to weather impacts on the East Coast and in the Midwest as well as new Federal Aviation Administration guidelines about how much rest pilots must now have."

...and so it begins.
Expect to hear this language appended to each and every airline generated statement regarding degradation of service, regardless of cause.

JetBlue To Halt All Flights To And From Boston, NY, NJ « CBS Boston

I agree but also look at all the incidents and accident in the last year. I am not saying that they are due to lack of rest but right now there is huge emphasis on safety and I don't see them finding discrepancies over the rest rules and then just changing them to accommodate airlines. They had 2 years and the majority waited until the Jan to implement 117. Just like the new ATP requirements, meanwhile airlines are asking for concessions from their pilots and wonder why they don't have enough... Ohh did I mention record profits, airline management might get a swift kick in the junk if they allow foreign carriers to come into the US. The tide is turning and we need to use it for our advantage.

.......................+1

Fact of the matter is that the FAA dragged its feet. The airlines have been trying to get ready for the past 2 years. The FAA was very slow to put out its FAQ's and clarifications on the rules. Just recently they decided that everyone would start at 0 on the 4th at 0001am prior than a few months ago they said you had to comply with the look back. Sabre was programmed for the look back starting on the 4th so for us at VX it created many exceptions in saber and they all have to be processed manually. So I am sure some airlines did drop the ball but I would say most were waiting on the feds.

I can't see any relief ever given on these new regs. It's kind of hard to justify taking back years of data driven by scientific studies on fatigue etc. 330 million people in this country and all but about 6 of them don't fly on a regular basis. You can bet your butt the media would have a field day with any motion to change the language to favor the airlines. It took how long to implement it? I can only imagine how long it would take to amend it. By then, any airline that can't hack it will be out of business anyways.

One day all pilots will wake up from living like zombies under this veil of chronic fatigue and wonder where all those years went. Such a blur when you think about it. Being subject to the lifestyle of pre 117 had to have some long term effects. Just wait for the smoke to clear. It will be nice.