Well, we have 4 ex-RJ pilots. Making low-ish MD-88 pay, living the dream in major eastern city, flying 10-14 days a month on expense account. KTEB is looking for guys and gals.

GF

The big bennifit regionals provide to mainline is less exposer to to aircraft leases, cheaper maintenance, flight attendants...etc. Mainline could staff the flight deck with its pilots. They would be trained by them, to thier standards and procedures and flow up the ranks of seniority....they would be thier own pilots flying the cheap regional aircraft. The regional could make money by owning the aircraft, flight attendants, Maint...etc

Where is this?

That statement doesn't make sense. I'm pretty sure mainline holds titles on a bunch of the RJs in service right now. Plus, you think a mainline pilot union would allow their pilots to fly on aircraft that are maintained outside of the airline's control? The only discount the mainline gets is on labor. The leases have to be covered somehow, the insurance paid, the crews trainined. These are all fixed costs. Of course, you could argue that the maintenance is less acceptable but it is acceptable enough for FAA certification. In that case, there is still a fixed price on parts. If anything, one could argue that places like American could get deals with suppliers for bulk orders of parts because they own hundreds of jets versus tens.

I wonder at what point it becomes more effective for mainline to fly their own regional jets. All of the additional cost that goes into having a separate company (CEO, Payroll, HR, Maint, Dispatch, building leases, insurance, and so on) make me wonder if our wages were to only increase by a small margin if they would no longer contract out. Unless it has more to do with liability? Endeavor is using a lot of Delta resources to lower cost and with a concessionary contract in place for the next six years, plus attrition of 40-50 pilots off the top per month it will be dirt cheap to operate. If they can find the pilots. I don't see separate entities surviving unless there is massive consolidation to make it economically viable.

I read your entire post, and I do see a comparison between widebody pilots and the rest of us. I do see that it was not the spirit of your entire post, but rather an example of what the rate is for a widebody pilot as it relates to the entire picture.

I still see a comparison. There is a drastic difference between a widebody salary and smaller aircraft such as regionals, so much that it is almost irrevelent what a widebody pilot makes compared to a regional guy.
In my point of view, regional rates are so low that it hardly does any justice to compare how much regional people work to their actual pay. The widebody part, well it just doesn't fit.

In the short term, I believe management will have to raise the pay significantly regardless of what type of duty pay pilots may be getting.

Anyway, no offense to you!

Speak for yourself :cool:

http://www.flystickers.com/media/cat...e1900_03_2.jpg

You can say you still see a comparison but that doesn't mean it's there. Of course there is a drastic difference between a WB Captain and a regional pilot but that has nothing to do with what I was attempting to convey. My message was simply about getting paid for duty hours versus flight hours. I'm going to try one more time and then chalk it up to the blinders you have on regarding the bad pay situation.

I used the WB Captain pay as the extreme in order to make my point. Which was that looking at our current monthly pay as it stands today, NO pilot would get their current hourly pay rate if we were paid for all our hours on duty instead of our flight hours. I could have attempted to make my point in my first post by typing:
"If we got paid for every hour we were actually on duty, do you really think a first year FO at a regional airline would make $20 an hour?"
But I don't think that would have been as effective since I was attempting to point out that ALL our hourly pay rates are inflated, especially the ones at the top(which is WHY I used that example). That's because we're getting paid on ~80-ish (give or take) flight/credit hours each month rather than the ~300-ish we spend away from base or the ~150-ish we spend on duty.

I think you're fixating on the fact that an RJ F/O probably SHOULD be getting his current pay rate for every hour he is on duty in order to make his compensation something close to reasonable - while you couldn't say the same thing about the WB Captain.

Clear as mud? Either way, I'm done. Cheers.

Is your spelling really that bad?

He's a pilot remember?

Are pilots idiots?

Yes.

Yes we are.

Why is it such an "outlandish" thought that we should get current pay rates or better for every hour we're on duty, or at least something close to that? My brother is an attorney and makes $450.00 for every single hour he works, whether he's home or out of town. His law firm even bills for all phone calls, etc. at that rate. Let's not always be the first to "sell ourselves short"!

The pay scales are set up to maximize the amount you used to get from the defined benefit pension program. It seems it's now every man for himself fighting to get back what was promised.

Pension funds are the most destructive force in the universe.

It's not outlandish if you can negotiate it and get the company to agree. Most airlines don't pay their pilots using that system, so it would be a big change. Since that would at least double (if not, triple or more) pilot labor costs, I won't hold my breath. As far as selling ourselves short? Regional pilots have typically done just that because they felt it was a temporary sacrifice. In my personal situation, just because my pay is based on flight hours rather than duty hours doesn't mean I feel like I'm selling myself short. I don't care how my pay is computed as long as I like what I see on pay day.

As far as your brother...... Wow. So, in a 40 hour work week he makes $18,000. 60 hours (since most lawyers work long hours) gets him $27,000 a week. 900K to 1.3 million a year. Pretty good, I'd say.

Since I don't know your brother, I'll have to take your word. However, you also mention his law firm BILLS at that rate (which sounds about right). You appear to be confusing the firm's billable rate (what they charge clients) and what they pay their lawyers. Most lawyers are on salary. The firm bills clients, say $450 for each hour the lawyer works on their case. The firm then pays the lawyer's salary (along with operating expense, etc) out of the billing revenue. Typically, the lawyer's salary is 25%-30% of the annual revenue they generate for the firm.

Lawyers, especially in large firms, have an expected annual goal of hours billed to clients. Usually in the ball park of 2,000 hours per year. In order to actually bill that many hours (and still be human - eat meals, take breaks, etc.) the lawyers are usually working at least 50 hours a week and some nights/weekends (so maybe 60/week total). That's 3000 hours of work per year. At a salary of $200,000 per year, they're getting paid ~$67 per hour. $300K per year, $100/hour.

So, it sounds like your brother has got himself a seriously good thing, well outside the norm for most lawyers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/op...hour.html?_r=0

Adlerdriver,

My niece is a LA lawyer, previously in Manhattan, and your comments are right on track. They usually work horrendous hours for that kind of money. No airline pilot would consider it.

GF

NLO,

In New England, but on a public forum, I'm not revealing my employer.

GF

Only PSA pilots.

We are about to vote on a TA...quitting would not be doing the profession much good now, would it? I want to participate in changing the industry. The regionals are hurting so much for pilots now that we have more leverage than we've ever had before. Yes some have voted for new bad contracts, but even if mainline cuts flying from those with decent contracts and gives it to those with the bad, how are they going to staff it?

Bye
 

OK, see 'ya.