Airline Pilot Central Forums - Loan Forgiveness

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 1596968)

Unfortunately, these young people are not given the entire story, the information is not out there for the taking, they suffer from a situation where they are surrounded by family members, various school officials, and others, encouraging them to get their education and get in the workforce. The truth might be somewhere in this cloud, but if it conflicts with what the school is encouraging or wants it's likely to at least be de-emphasized and at worst kids are outright lied to. Now you add to that a young kid that has taken high school economics, but that doesn't really understand economics, compounding interest, deferments, cost of living 5 or more years later, where he is even going to be living, and so on, not to mention they have probably never paid back anything of value in their life, and it quickly gets unrealistic to expect these kids to make the right decisions and actually understand the decisions. This is something that impacts their lives so greatly that they may not be able to get out from the debt for 20 years or more, not to mention what happens if they lose their medical or get multiple checkride failures later on. Yeah, kids sometimes sign bad car purchase deals, and that is usually a good life lesson, but how many times over or for how long do they need to learn that they shouldn't have funded their aviation career with loans? 30 years? 40 years? For the rest of their lives? I understand that they should pay back the money if at all possible and I'm all for that, but it's a little more complicated than that.

It's like your grandma getting all of her life savings taken away by some con man. Sure, she signed the line, and maybe it was technically legal, but someone just took advantage of her, because she didn't understand the connotations of signing and the entire situation.

I'm all for making them pay back the money if at all possible. On the other hand, if it's not possible because the bottom fell out, the world wasn't as promised, the people that made those promises should be held accountable too. If there's no possible way for them to pay back the money, the loan companies should come after the school and they should pay the difference or what the student can not. I bet real fast the entrance requirements would go way up and we'd get people that actually want to be there, are capable of being there, and have the financial resources to be there. The school would also take job-placement seriously and the fact that you earn so little when starting out as a pilot would force them to come up with better solutions, more bridge programs, searching for partners that need pilots and understand the known quality of the institution, and so on.

Wow I do not know what to say I did not know a money back guarantee existed in any college field. What if a doctor fails his board exams? Plenty of people have gotten real expensive Degrees in things like philosophy, literature etc. only to find there is little no market for their talents or they have low pay. Do I have this right a 18 can sign up for military service and all that entails. However he does not have the mental ability to research if his chosen field will realistically pay enough to pay off his student loans all in the internet age?

Any pilot who works for an airline that filed Bankruptcy should seriously consider doing the same thing. Especially if you were displaced or downgraded or went from line holder to reserve. The student loans were taken out with an expected level of income and a reasonable expectation of career progression, NOT a freakin decade at a regional. There's a workaround on private student loans in a Ch13. Stop paying the loans if you've been placed in a financial position by intentional decisions by management & whipsaw. The loans will be charged off and sold to a 3rd party collector. At this point it's no longer a student loan but its a privately held debt. It is dischargable at this point. The Ch13 process will enable you to become financially viable again and with the slate wiped clean & a Zero debt:income ratio your credit will fully recover much quicker than you could imagine. A Bankruptcy is nothing more than a financial/business decision and should be treated as such. There is nothing morally wrong with it, otherwise our employers wouldn't have done it right??? It would b EASY to explain in a future interview as well. You were forced into it by your carrier & subsequent cut in pay.

I wasn't there at the time, but I've been told that at DAL during the concessions & Bankruptcy that there were Suicides, Divorces & foreclosures. If THAT is ok, then why isn't it ok for the worker bees to do the same?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIFLYR (Post 1596984)

Wow I do not know what to say I did not know a money back guarantee existed in any college field. What if a doctor fails his board exams?

Then that school didn't do a good job selecting a student that was going to complete what they started and they didn't do a good job preparing and training the student. It should be in the school's best interest to select students that will actually be able to pass the board exams, let alone providing adequate schooling to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Forman (Post 1596947)

What a wonderful person you are. I may disagree all day long with you, but I would never wish you a slow death or want to **** on your grave. You are what's wrong with the human race if that's how you truly feel. Have a nice night.

"Idiots" like Red are what is right for the industry. Pilots not working for the airlines is the only thing that might improve the QOL there. With the NMB and longevity based pay, labor has little to no bargaining power in negotiations.

It's funny, most of America is 2 missing paychecks away from bankruptcy lol. You guys should be refocusing your efforts on dealing with concessionary contracts and not individual pilots financial situations.

Bankruptcy exists for companies and individuals for a reason, to be used. Otherwise we wouldn't have it right?

But by all means, divide and conquer, your overseers love that :)

Bankruptcy exists to make a certain degree of risk taking acceptable. If bankruptcy were to be allowed for student loans, there would be no student loans because the default rate would be so high. Nobody would make loans to people that only had to endure 7 years of bad credit to wipe out hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by makersmarc (Post 1597208)

That situation can be overcame.

For example, let's say I have $20,000 is student loan debt. If I have 3 credit cards and take out cash advances of say $5000 on each of them, I could take that $15,000 and use it to pay down the non-dischargable student loan debt and default on the credit cards.

We can extrapolate the student loan forgiveness into home loans as well. Should we forgive those that are currently paying the debt but are upside down in terms of equity? No one guaranteed your house would appreciate in value. Maybe you overpaid to begin with. Why are the rest of us on the line for making up the difference? Sorry drift but correlated argument.

Well let's just abolish bankruptcy for business and people, problem solved. Nobody would ever take a loan, pay cash for everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1597330)

Well let's just abolish bankruptcy for business and people, problem solved. Nobody would ever take a loan, pay cash for everything.

Level the playing field for ALL of us and stop bailing out corporations/banks/car companies, take ALL the corporate money out of politics and, while your at it, abolish the treasonous Federal Reserve and return the process of "coining money" to the people/congress.