Support Eagle and RAH pilots
 

This month, our brothers and sisters at Eagle and RAH will simultaneously vote on what are very clearly concessionary contracts. These two pilot groups have a chance at changing the tide of management's whipsaw game that has plagued us for years. Express Jet pilots paved the way forward with their overwhelmingly “NO” vote, now, Eagle and RAH pilots are in a position to draw the invisible line in the sand and finally end the nasty whipsaw game that has driven our industry down the gutters for so many years. A no vote from all three pilot groups will certainly guarantee “NO” votes in any further concessionary TAs as we will finally be unified in our stance against further degradation to our pay and QOL.

The purpose of this thread is to support our friends as they decide on the future of this profession. So, let hear some encouraging words in support of ending the down-ward spiral. Remember, this thread is about supporting our fellow pilots, please NO arguing or bickering-children need not POST!

So Eagle and RAH pilots, Thank you for your vote-Show us how its done! Draw the line!!!

Very few things matter more right now to the industry than these votes. Let them know what you're worth.

In 23 years I cannot remember a more important turning point in commercial airline careers. It's hard to make a decision for benefit of an entire industry when your own personal well being is on the line, but I'm sure pilots at both carriers will make the right decision.

Good luck to you all and may God have mercy on your souls :D

At least we also have the group from PSA who helped us all out as well!!

Oh wait, never mind. They're spineless little punks who are easily swayed when you show 'em a picture of a new, shiny jet!

All professional pilots are watching with anticipation to see if you guys will take a stand. We have the industry on its heels. Now isn't the time to back down!

Careful Tiller. While I'm hopeful our group will vote this down, we can't be throwing rocks in glass houses. If this gets voted down by less than the 83% of XJT, I don't think we can talk **** about PSA

+1

Watching from the side lines but support your efforts 100%! Don't let their misleading use of key words like "industry leading" be another empty promise! You are professionals and its time that they treated you like it!

As an outsider looking in I don't see how voting down a TA means a turn for the industry. If it was that simple why not earlier or how did you end up with the current contract. Maybe they are trying to give you a worse one. If that is the case I totally understand but "change" the industry I don't.

Also don't be surprised at the outcome. I remember at 9E I thought a contract would never pass but it did as I was walking out the door. On the line "everyone" said they were a no vote.

What ever happened to "Ill pay you this to come work for me. If you don't like it leave." In the corporate world I sure don't blame XYZ's flight department for my agreement with my boss. But in 121 its other airlines fault. I remember 9E guys were mad at mesaba guys for a bit. Actually I think it was the other way around. Maybe I am to simple of a guy.

Endless support from the sidelines!!

-air whiskey

What happened is the RLA and the seniority system which makes a lateral move nigh impossible. As a regional pilot, you've got around 100K sunk in your diminishing or stagnant career. Until recently, there were very few non-regional airline jobs available, quitting means you start all over again at yr1 pay at some other dump of a regional. The govt. backed RLA, the use of bankruptcy courts to abrogate contracts and the seniority system means you are an indentured servant on a plantation.

Mainline airlines hire several regional airlines and then force them to bid against ea. other for flying contracts. So as regional pilots we are constantly being threatened with losing our jobs, if we don't take contract concessions. The worm is turning, and pilots have had enough. BTW, the RLA and weak unions allow the company to violate their contract with the employees as they see fit, and make restitution at some future date through arbitration. Due to these circumstances, morale at most airlines and especially the regional airlines which provide 50
% or more of domestic air travel, is rock bottom. One big reason air travel sucks is employee morale sucks. Former CEO of UAL is famously quoted as saying employee morale is not his problem!

I can't wait to take that ALPA servey on FFD which is administered by an Endeavor pilot just so I can get to the comment section and rip him a new one. I hope he reads this to know its coming. I hope others do as well!

The RAH TA is pretty much DOA. Teamsters AD are grasping at straws now to garner votes. The conference calls only made everyone more upset. No threat of this ta passing. Im hoping eagle guys dont cave to the threats. No one else is capable of taking your planes. Hold your ground and you will be rewarded.

^^^plenty of captain upgrades are a "yes" vote to keep their seats, at least the ones that are currently in training right now!!! (20 upgrades)

NOT that I support the RAH/IBT tentative agreement...

...but what exactly about it is "concessionary" from their current agreement?

Lets start with the cobase loa. Only a matter of time before that really screws over the pilot group.
No pay protection if you timeout at the end of the year.
Hot reserve will now be used.
Cx pay language so weak, current book may actually be better.
Must be contactable at all times on duty.
There are more but im in a bit of a hurry.
The worst part are the so called gains though. Most contain such weak and downright horrible language that we will never actually. See said gains. The nc knows this, so they keep falling back on using bargaining notes as an excuse. Only problem is we all know anything outside what is written in the contract will mean nothing.

I know I'm gonna get criticized for this but this is just my take on Regional Airlines, Unions and Management as they relate to the Real world....I have many years of experience with real world management at a fairly large corporation as well as better than 30 years in the flying world. No I'm not employed by any of the airlines as a pilot or in Management.

The Corp world lives by the Golden Rule.......He who Holds the Gold rules!!
So lets relate that to the Regional's. The ruler (Gold Holder) would be the mainline carrier as they award the runs for all the Regionals. They will only release so much of the Gold to do this job. So the next Gold Holder in line is Management at the Regional level. They take their Gold in and distribute it as they see fit. But it is a set amount of Gold. The only way to increase the Gold at the bottom of the chain (us Pilots) is to take it away from other employees at the same company. Thus why getting an outstanding No vote is virtually impossible most of the time. I have not read the latest TA for either airline but my guess is that it has enough meat in it for the 10-20 year Capt to keep him complacent and vote yes. The mid term capt is complacent just trying to move to the mainline. Thus leaving the 1-10 year F/O (because of the retirement age being extended 5 years) as the main No voters.

This would be the same at every Airline and works in all Corporations be it airline or railroad or Grocery Chain. The Golden Rule will always be in Play. Us Pilots do not have a way to get to the Gold to Rule. We only get to occasionally play in the big boys sand box, we never get to own it!!!! This system has been in place much longer than any current pilot at any Regional or Mainline. The rulers of the Gold would just as soon shut down as to release any of the gold they have. So unless management just decides to screw the entire pilot pool so they can keep the gold for mechanics, flight attendants and front office personnel then the voting will always be swayed toward management.

Don't get me wrong I hope you can find a way to join together and beat down the T/A and make the profession a better place to be. Thus attracting more young guns to fill the seats.

JA is a tool. Seriously. Met plenty of ALPA National brown nosers in my day... But he is something else. That said until Lee goes and some new blood is pumped into the executive office nothing with alpa will change.

I couldn't agree more with what you have said. I believe what is different this time is that the majority of Eagle, Republic, Express, and ASA pilots are sending the message, "Pay us or shut the airlines down." We understand it could put us all on the streets, but for the first time I can remember the regional community is united and not giving in. The paradigm of how the "gold" is distributed will either change or the airlines mentioned will fold.

Edit: I would also like to add that we have had it with our respective union representation and our now uniting through forums and social media to take a stand not only against the company but the unions endorsing these TA's.

Thank you sir. While I'd certainly miss the left seat paycheck I'll proudly stand for the profession. That's right, despite some idiotic claims from some in our ranks we are professionals and not blue collar workers. I've read lots of comments through the years that the Regionals will never compensate like the Majors. I believe every contract should be another large step in that direction. Right up to the point where it no longer makes economic sense to outsource. We're doing half the U.S. domestic flying. Concessions now are simply insane as flights are cancelled for staffing. Enough is enough! FUPM and my brothers and sisters.

While most of what you said maybe true, I think you should also look at what the XJT pilots did recently. We have voted our equally industry leading TA down with an 83% resounding NO votes. This is not meant to toot our horn, but to let you know that this included the senior and mid term pilot group that you had mentioned.

Any pilot who has some self worth and thinks themselves as a professional, has understood that the bar should not be lowered any more. No one that I know of, myself included, wants that pot of Gold that is entrusted to the corporate elite.

The 83% from XJT would want our peers at Eagle and Republic to take a stand along with us to let our managements know that while they take their pay increases, we feel that we, as professionals, should be compensated properly with better pay, benefits and quality of life. I feel that if ever there was a time to take a stand for our profession, it is now. This is not only for us who are in the industry now but for those who will come after.

Yes, you are too simple.

Yep, it would be really difficult to shut all of those places down and move all of that flying elsewhere if everyone stands together.

As someone that will hopefully join the regional game soon, I definitely support everyone and wish you all the best :).

Exactly. PSA lowered the bar for us all and opened the door for these concessionary contracts to be presented. The rest of us are not willing to sell out ourselves or our brothers/sisters. We deserve better. We are no longer willing to let the companies, the IBT, or ALPA pressure, intimidate, or sell us on signing off on contracts that diminish us and our profession. It's important we keep talking about this on forums, in the cockpit and crew rooms, on social media, and everywhere else.

If the pilot groups don't get this right, and push this in the right direction, then they never will. This is a chance that comes along once in a blue moon, and if it is not taken advantage of, you won't see it again in your regional "careers". Have some backbone, and vote no. Take the opportunity when it is flaunted in your face to improve your worth, for all pilots everywhere, and for your, and your families sakes.

The Pot of Gold story is indeed the issue that makes reaching a solution so difficult with these regional managements. I really do believe them when they claim there is no money (from the current revenue stream of mainline payments) to support any contract improvements. They (mainlines) are pushing the regional system to failure as a result. Right now they are sacrificing the most expendable/non-critical portions of that system, but the vital organs will be under stress soon. Performance failures in terms of increasing cancelled flights will be the only thing that may bring forth a recalculation of CPA payment levels, or simply an abandonment of the CPA system and bring the operations in house to a great degree. They used whipsawed CPA deals because they could. That is no longer an option going forward, unless some mainline dumps a huge portion of it's regional pilot supply and makes them available on the market.

So, what can they do? Cut schedules? Fool/scare us with Comairing in the morning while they refleet with large RJs in the afternoon? Pay to stabilize the regional system? Buy the operations back and admit the regional model is finished?

The "Pot of Gold story" is nothing but a total crock of *******! The bottom line is that mainline needs/wants feed to support their hubs, and regionals do a large portion of that. If every pilot group stands together refusing to continue letting our profession slide, they will have to pony up a bigger "Pot" or lose their feed. If no other groups pull a "Brownstreak" and sell out for shiny new jets, they won't be able to keep bidding lower and lower on their RFP's by counting on getting more and more concessions from the flight crews...
It really is that simple!;)

If there's enough money in their "Pot" to continually allow for double digit pay increases along with bonus after bonus for management, there should be enough to turn around the slide in our "profession"!

American Airlines Group Inc. (AAL) is heading for an annual profit analysts estimate at $3.5 billion

American Record Profit Seen as Air Merger Buoys Industry - Bloomberg

I believe both groups will follow xjt and vote it down! Were all behind you! Dont worry, every airlines is threatening shut downs....Dont fall for the scare tactics.. Eagle, xjt and RAH arent going to shut down! 9,000 pilots cant be replaced!

I hope you're right..from what I've heard from friends, RAH will be an overwhelming NO. I'm not sure if I can say the same about Eagle. While I think we'll vote it down, I don't know if we'll break 60-65%.

What people tend to forget about PSA is that this pilot group went through 2 bankruptcies and said no to concessions when offered airplanes a few years ago.
Where did the airplanes go? RAH and Mesa got the airplanes. They got burnt before and you expected them to get burnt again? They also were not the first to take concessions.
You have a very short memory.

Trying to justify taking concessions at a time airlines are making record profits??? RAH did not take concessions to get that flying previously. That means psa was never going to get them. You guys are sellouts and will be looked down on from here on out. There is nothing you can say to make yourself look better. The rest of us will push forward while you will likely shrink due to lack of staffing. In the end, you will have sold out for nothing.

Ever heard the story of how PSA got CRJs in the first place?

And this, class, is the textbook example found on page 1 of the playbook called the 'Whipsaw Effect'.

Known to roam rampant throughout the regional business model, the Whipsaw is fast becoming extinct. Take a good look, class, because the collective pilot group has had enough and is going to kill said Effect.

Notice how unaware the Effect is of its surroundings. It doesn't even know it's being hunted!

Now turn to page 2 of the playbook...entitled Mainline Scope. Oh look, we've run out of time. We'll cover that tomorrow, class.

I and any other current or former Piedmont pilot could tell you!

QUIT TRYING TO JUSTIFY YOUR ACTIONS. 61% of your group sucks. Deal with it.

If these two groups do not vote it down as predicted by a few on this forum. (The same few that are kicking PSA for agreeing to theirs) Then I hope all the name calling on this forum will stop as I see no difference between the groups.

But if you do vote it down and it actually betters the industry. Not just makes the two groups go looking for jobs, while another Regional takes over the flying on a lessor contract. Then I expect PSA pilots should admit defeat then apply at the better Regional and take a lower seniority number and wish they had the balls their seniors had.

If you vote it down then loose all the flying thus looking for jobs, You then admit defeat and go apply at PSA (or another lessor contract Regional) and become JR to the ones that stuck it out. (or go find jobs elsewhere)

I believe it is now nut cutting Time, and only time will tell if you got in the correct line!!!!

I'll add this to the mix
 

I'm not sure if anyone saw this on the major forum. It's a bit redundant but adds more reason not to take any concessions at this point in time. I'm certainly no old timer with only 20 years of combined cargo, regional and major airline flying but I have never seen events conspire as they are right now. There is absolutely no reason to vote for concessions. Call their bluff. There will be tons of opportunity in the unlikely event your company decides to shrink or shut down.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/6ba70edc9d12...&alloworigin=1

^^^^this^^^^

Good post. One of the better written pieces out there.