Originally Posted by ZBowFlyz (Post 1619815)

The single most over looked detail is simple and often overlooked- Where does the money to pay properly come from?

It comes from mother DAL and father UAL and the mistress AAL. We love to hate regional management and they deserve 99% of it however, they bid their routes based on a specific labor cost. If we exceed that then our companies go TU. Along with our jobs. That is basic business.

This is the natural ebb and flow of capitalism. Once we understand the supply and demand curve we can see how the RJ operators are just the pool boys for their respective Legacies. At their mercy. Be smart enough to direct the "Pay hate" at it's source.

Don't misunderstand me, I dislike management as much as the next guy and feel like we are grossly underpaid but I am also well aware that there is too much competition in our industry. A few have become too expensive and they will fall by the way side. This might help to find the balance in this industry. Look how long it took to shut down Comair. Size doesn't matter. If the company is too expensive it will cease to exist.

The interesting thing is the 1500hr rule and 117. Today isn't as simple as it used to be due to these barriers to entry for new pilots. Predictions are pure speculation at this point but the companies that will survive the storm in my opinion, will be the Regionals without 50 seaters and a relatively junior (inexpensive) pilot group.

The industry needs re fleeted and that is one step in mitigating the "shortage" The situation may force mainline to accelerate the rate at which they park uneconomical aircraft such as the 135/145s/200s etc.

Hopefully, as we go through this "capitalistic valley" the legacy's will take back the flying (at a respectable pay rate for the pilots) or the remaining companies will bid more fat in their contracts. One way or another, it will get worse before it gets better. IMO

Originally Posted by ZBowFlyz (Post 1619815)

The single most over looked detail is simple and often overlooked- Where does the money to pay properly come from?

It comes from mother DAL and father UAL and the mistress AAL. We love to hate regional management and they deserve 99% of it however, they bid their routes based on a specific labor cost. If we exceed that then our companies go TU. Along with our jobs. That is basic business.

This is the natural ebb and flow of capitalism. Once we understand the supply and demand curve we can see how the RJ operators are just the pool boys for their respective Legacies. At their mercy. Be smart enough to direct the "Pay hate" at it's source.

Don't misunderstand me, I dislike management as much as the next guy and feel like we are grossly underpaid but I am also well aware that there is too much competition in our industry. A few have become too expensive and they will fall by the way side. This might help to find the balance in this industry. Look how long it took to shut down Comair. Size doesn't matter. If the company is too expensive it will cease to exist.

The interesting thing is the 1500hr rule and 117. Today isn't as simple as it used to be due to these barriers to entry for new pilots. Predictions are pure speculation at this point but the companies that will survive the storm in my opinion, will be the Regionals without 50 seaters and a relatively junior (inexpensive) pilot group.

The industry needs re fleeted and that is one step in mitigating the "shortage" The situation may force mainline to accelerate the rate at which they park uneconomical aircraft such as the 135/145s/200s etc.

Hopefully, as we go through this "capitalistic valley" the legacy's will take back the flying (at a respectable pay rate for the pilots) or the remaining companies will bid more fat in their contracts. One way or another, it will get worse before it gets better. IMO

Originally Posted by Waitingformins (Post 1619379)

I don’t believe it, if they made more to scale why unions would protect scope
10 year captain Delta Airbus 319 $200 Typical seat 134 = $1.49 per seat PLUS 16 %
10 year captain ASA captain CRJ 9 $84 Typical seat 88 = $.95 per seat
Also what really happens is the local union divides up the pay amongst the group, I doubt SkyWest mgmt would object to taking 10% from senior captains and giving it to junior FO’S. Net some zero for them and free recruiting. Also to your point about the 50 seat jets, they are going away so that linier extrapolation is going away, the vote tanked because of what’s above. The overall payroll deduction, by needing less pilots due to larger planes, should be enough to justify bringing in new planes why should the pilot group buy them with concessions.

Originally Posted by ZBowFlyz (Post 1619815)

The single most over looked detail is simple and often overlooked- Where does the money to pay properly come from?

It comes from mother DAL and father UAL and the mistress AAL. We love to hate regional management and they deserve 99% of it however, they bid their routes based on a specific labor cost. If we exceed that then our companies go TU. Along with our jobs. That is basic business.

This is the natural ebb and flow of capitalism. Once we understand the supply and demand curve we can see how the RJ operators are just the pool boys for their respective Legacies. At their mercy. Be smart enough to direct the "Pay hate" at it's source.

Don't misunderstand me, I dislike management as much as the next guy and feel like we are grossly underpaid but I am also well aware that there is too much competition in our industry. A few have become too expensive and they will fall by the way side. This might help to find the balance in this industry. Look how long it took to shut down Comair. Size doesn't matter. If the company is too expensive it will cease to exist.

The interesting thing is the 1500hr rule and 117. Today isn't as simple as it used to be due to these barriers to entry for new pilots. Predictions are pure speculation at this point but the companies that will survive the storm in my opinion, will be the Regionals without 50 seaters and a relatively junior (inexpensive) pilot group.

The industry needs re fleeted and that is one step in mitigating the "shortage" The situation may force mainline to accelerate the rate at which they park uneconomical aircraft such as the 135/145s/200s etc.

Hopefully, as we go through this "capitalistic valley" the legacy's will take back the flying (at a respectable pay rate for the pilots) or the remaining companies will bid more fat in their contracts. One way or another, it will get worse before it gets better. IMO

Originally Posted by Monkeyfly (Post 1619885)

So then, where did Skywest get the extra money to buy other airlines if they were paying the pilots the most they could afford?

Originally Posted by Monkeyfly (Post 1619885)

So then, where did Skywest get the extra money to buy other airlines if they were paying the pilots the most they could afford?

Originally Posted by Paid2fly (Post 1619922)

Yup, 4 other airlines to be exact! Three of which were money losing investments...

Originally Posted by ZBowFlyz (Post 1619815)

The single most over looked detail is simple and often overlooked- Where does the money to pay properly come from?

It comes from mother DAL and father UAL and the mistress AAL. We love to hate regional management and they deserve 99% of it however, they bid their routes based on a specific labor cost. If we exceed that then our companies go TU. Along with our jobs. That is basic business.

This is the natural ebb and flow of capitalism. Once we understand the supply and demand curve we can see how the RJ operators are just the pool boys for their respective Legacies. At their mercy. Be smart enough to direct the "Pay hate" at it's source.

Don't misunderstand me, I dislike management as much as the next guy and feel like we are grossly underpaid but I am also well aware that there is too much competition in our industry. A few have become too expensive and they will fall by the way side. This might help to find the balance in this industry. Look how long it took to shut down Comair. Size doesn't matter. If the company is too expensive it will cease to exist.

The interesting thing is the 1500hr rule and 117. Today isn't as simple as it used to be due to these barriers to entry for new pilots. Predictions are pure speculation at this point but the companies that will survive the storm in my opinion, will be the Regionals without 50 seaters and a relatively junior (inexpensive) pilot group.

The industry needs re fleeted and that is one step in mitigating the "shortage" The situation may force mainline to accelerate the rate at which they park uneconomical aircraft such as the 135/145s/200s etc.

Hopefully, as we go through this "capitalistic valley" the legacy's will take back the flying (at a respectable pay rate for the pilots) or the remaining companies will bid more fat in their contracts. One way or another, it will get worse before it gets better. IMO

Originally Posted by RamenNoodles (Post 1619192)

I personally think the starting FO rate should be $40 and FO's should top out at $60. Captains should start at $100 per hour and top around $150.

It's still not ideal, but I just don't see the regional flying being completely absorbed back into mainline. This would at least provide a much better financial package for what is left of the regional world after the impending shakedown. I'd be willing to bet 70% or more would vote in favor of these rates and additional QOL enhancements.