Pinnacle payscale
 

Hey guys I'm curious. I was talking to an old buddy of mine who was a capt. at Pinnacle and now he's a first officer for CAL. He was telling me, I'm only positive it's old news here, that pinnacle has a 10yr contract with NWA and pinnacle also will be receiving new jets. However for them to get them there's a clause where they have to sign the new pilot contract by march or else they don't get the jets. Has this contract already been signed or are we still waiting?

Why would you title this thread "Pinnacle Payscale"?:confused:

because it's a pay contract about pinnacle perhaps????

Pinnacle signed a new Airport Service Agreement (ASA) with NWA last week. This new ASA must be finalized by March 2007. At this point there are 2 outcomes. At a minimum, the new deal will be 3-years. At a maximum, the deal would be worth 10 years. Most Pinnacle guys believe they already got a 10-year deal through 2017 but it won't be officially finalized for a couple of months yet.

So far Pinnacle is not receiving any new jets. Pinnacle is simply getting back the 17 CRJ's NWA took away last year.

How would this effect their pay? Will there be a bump in the $21 per hour or is the $21 the new standard.

I hope to god that it increases.

The new agreement between Pinnacle and NWA has nothing to do with what a pilot makes. The only thing that affects your hourly rate is what ALPA and managment can agree on in future contracts.

The new ASA with NWA will surely have a lower profit margin than before and mangamnet will tell the pilots they cannot afford what the pilots are asking for but that is just the way the game is played. Since Pinnacle pilots have been trying to negotiate a new contract for the last 2 years their pay is near the bottom of the indusrty. Because of this, you can be assured that future payrates will have to be increased...there is no way they would go down from their current rates.

Until a new contract is reached, you can plan on first year pay at Pinncale to remain at $21/hr.

I was told the new agreement had a clause in it that Pinnacle had to finish their contract with the pilots, meaning new pay rates, by a certain time in march or else they don't get the contract.

If you think a pilot contract is just about pay, you are grossly misinformed. If it was just pay rates, it would be a couple pages long at most. Most airline contracts are over 100 pages long with all kinds of clauses in em like what is required to drop or trade a trip, leaves of absence, who gets junior manned in what order all the way down to seat assignment hierarchy for deadheads. Listen to these SkyWest guys. Their hourly rates aren't bad. But where they make their real money is in the workrules of their contract, not in the hourly rate. So in summary, the title of this thread should probably have been something along the lines of "New Pinnacle Contract"

I wasn't interested in the whole contract. I was asking about the payscale. If the hourly rate is going up or if the jump from 19 to $21 was it. I don't plan on anything except what's on paper. I wanted to know if the monthly guarantee is planning on going up or not.

Here is a clip from the terms of the ASA between Pinnacle and NWA:

“The Amended ASA will provide that Pinnacle will retain its existing fleet of 124 CRJ-200 aircraft. Pinnacle's fleet size will further be adjusted under the following conditions:

-- 17 CRJ-200/440 aircraft will be delivered to Pinnacle during 2007. Northwest will commit to either a three- or ten-year term for these aircraft with Pinnacle prior to March 31, 2007. However, if Pinnacle has not entered into an amended collective bargaining agreement with the Airline Pilots Association ("ALPA"), the union representing its pilots, prior to March 31, 2007, Northwest will have an ongoing OPTION to remove these 17 aircraft from Pinnacle at any time at a rate of three aircraft per month. Pinnacle's contract with ALPA is currently amendable.”

March 31, 2007 will come and go with no new agreements between ALPA and Pinnacle management. NWA will not exercise the option to remove airplanes and things will continue status quo. Keep in mind that if NWA did excercise the option to remove the 17 airplanes, the fleet would be exactly the same size as is is today - 12/26/2006.

As I said before, this new agreement between Pinnacle and NWA has NOTHING to do with what a pilot makes. The only thing that affects your hourly rate and monthly guarantee, is what ALPA and management can agree on in future pilot contracts.

1st year, $20.73 on a 75 hr guarantee.

2nd year, $24.39 on a 75 hr guarantee.

All years: $2low

I'd say year 2 pay is at least $10/hr too low. If it was only $2/hr. too low there would have been a TA by now.

I was trying to say too low in a creative fashion... I think its a shame to spend as much as a doctor on a specialized skill and still make less than a manager at a fast food joint (first and in many cases second year). I know its "paying dues" but when you can qualify for food stamps I think its a bit much.. Hopefully rock bottom truly has passed and wages/benefits/ the industry in general will rise to a level worthy of the dues put in.

Doctors don't make much starting out. Where did you ever hear otherwise? It's the same common thought people have about pilots :D

Well thats where you're wrong. What if they signed a new contract and first year pay was $30/hr? That'd be great right? Industry leading! But what if there was a clause in there that said you were only paid 50% for flights between 6am and midnight? Well now its not so good is it? Think something like that doesn't happen? Ask those CAL guys who are inflight relief officers on the 75/76 and 777. Up until recently they were paid 50% for deadheads. On a 16 hour flight to Delhi, that sucks. Point is this, payscales are easy to compare but its the workrules that really matter.

Bingo- there are plenty of things in the contract that are worth alot in the QOL dept. Money is always nice but its not the whole shebang. First year pay is really low, but what I would want to see more is a bigger hop in pay come second year.

As far as doctor pay, how long do you pay dues? In the regional world you have the time until you make captain before you make Ok money.. Thats what 2-3 years minimum! Plus the time before you get a regional after your initial ratings- another 2 years or so? 5 years is a pretty long dues period before you can hit $60K... These are obviously my views/opinions so lets not start a flame war- but last I heard from talking to a doc was by 5 years after med school you have already been doing OK for yourself. Please correct me if I am wrong- I know how much I hate the common stereotype that pilots are making bank from the beginning...

I'm not wrong about anything. I understand there are other things that go into account. My question is.... IS THE $19 to $21 INCREASE BECAUSE OF THE CONTRACT BEING SIGNED OR HAS IT YET TO BE NEGOTIATED? I can't put it more clear. I understand there are other factors like deadheads, canceled flight pay, ect. The question is not about that. The question is about the hourly pay rate. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible. It's a yes or no. Unless it's a no and you know what they are willing to increase it to. I'm asking because the captain I was speaking too could inform me on the other things however he hadn't heard on the pay per hour yet. So that's all I'm asking.

I think there are exceptions to all rules. I currently make great money right out of college as a CFI.

However you say 5 yrs is hard to make decent money? Think of how much more schooling. One of my good friends is a dermatologist. She went to college then med school, then had to do an internship, then got a job working for the prison system, now runs her own practice after the local doctor retired. She moved very fast by standards and she did not start her own practice until the age of 30. She started when 18 just like the rest of us going to college.

I graduated at 23. CFI making decent money at 24. Regional at 25 (should be). Figure 3yrs there before moving on. Possibly less. That puts me at 27-28. So look at a payscale for an airline or company like fedex or ups and look at 2nd year pay. It's not bad. Not saying one is better than the other. Just people think all doctor's, lawyers, pilots, ect. make serious cash. Maybe when older but not many right out of school. I know some CAN make more. But general thoughts are they dont.

The answer to your question is NO!

For the third time, the ASA with NWA has nothing to do with pilot pay. The pilot contract has yet to be negotiated. To use your words "I can't put it more clear".

The ASA says that if the contract is not approved by 3/31 then the jets that were taken away and are coming back can be taken away again or not returned at a rate of 3 a month. No word on what happens if contract is approved after that date.

Now contract or not doesn't affect NWA in any manner why is it there? FUD - Fear Uncertainty Doubt from mgmt aimed at a unified pilot group. So if the contract is not done pay stays the same as now and # of planes stays same as now. So What .. not worth a dime in the pay envelope.

A bigger thing is the approval to fly for other carriers. That's another mgmt stick gone.

Kids, kids, kids, let's not fight now.

this is negotiations 101, I can only hope that hte PNCL pilot group has the unity to tell NWA to take their ASA and shove it, instead of agreeing to a quick contract just so they can have a brand new shiny ASA for 10 years.
I use the same technique while potty training my daughter, "you can have 3 skittles if you use the toilet" thank goodness she sold out!!! don't do it PNCL, get a good contract!