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-   -   Majors To Absorb Regionals In The Future? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/81315-majors-absorb-regionals-future.html)

Mesabah 05-06-2014 08:16 AM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1637301)
The minimum standards may be the same but in practice major airlines aren't operating at the minimum standards.

Perhaps mainline should reconsider hiring any regional pilots?

I do think it is interesting though, that after the majors got rid of the military style CRM structure, the accident rate basically dropped to zero.

legend 05-06-2014 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1637301)
The minimum standards may be the same but in practice major airlines aren't operating at the minimum standards.

I must agree that the majors probably go beyond the call of duty with your training but it doesn't necessarily make you a better pilot if anything it just makes your life easier during training. The regionals have good training and if anything it makes it harder on the pilot. Most regional pilots are hard workers with tremendous experience in and out of busy airports etc. High quality I say. Most I have flown with put me to shame with knowledge and experience. I would have no problem putting my family on any regional aircraft. The bible talks about taking the log out of your eye before you see the twig in others. I have apply this as well.

Waitingformins 05-06-2014 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by MEMbrain (Post 1636355)
I'd rather have my military brethren find out how "hard" my job is than regional pilots.

What type of military brethren
1. CFI’s who join as WO to get 750 and become RJ FO’s
2. CFI’s who become commissioned officer’ s and retired there
3. John Q public who get a flight slot in guard, reserve or active duty without have ever touching an airplane and either retired there or didn’t
4. RJ FO’s who sign up to wait out seniority
5. RJ pilots who were laid off and didn’t want to start over
6. People who were born better and PI$$ excellence like you sound
Comparing an all civilian career to a civilian+military career is not the same as comparing civilian to all military in only public aircraft career.

kfahmi 05-06-2014 02:14 PM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1637301)
The minimum standards may be the same but in practice major airlines aren't operating at the minimum standards.

Many, many former students of mine are now both regional and mainline pilots. (I've been around for a while.) To a man (and a woman), the mainline pilots all tell me that the only difference between regional operations and mainline operations is the compensation and the general QOL/ morale.

I also fail to see the difference between a CRJ-900 operating SFO-ORD nonstop, vs. a 132-seat mainline A318 flying the same exact route. (Aside from the Airbus's larger passenger capacity.) You're flying the same altitudes, same airspeeds, dealing with the same weather conditions, and operating under the same regulations. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the dramatic difference that supposedly requires all mainline pilots to be Chuck Yeager, while the regional guys are happy just to find the airport.

And if your assertion were true, it would follow that the rate of accidents, incidents, and stupid pilot tricks worthy of CNN coverage would be far higher for regionals than for mainline aircraft. Do you have the data to back up your claim? If so, I'm sure we'd all be interested to see it. A check of airline accident records in the US, over the past ten years, reveals the following accidents that took place in US airspace by US-operated carriers. (It does not include incidents that resulted in no injuries, such as the NWA crew that overflew their destination airport by 150nm a few years back. It also does not include incidents that were clearly due to mechanical failure and were no fault of the crew.)

Regional: Colgan 3407, Comair 5191, and Pinnacle 3701.

Mainline: SWA 1248, SWA 345, UPS 1354, AA 331, CAL 1404.

Obviously this isn't a scientific list, and it only goes back ten years from today. But with regional airlines operating something like 50% of all 121 departures (again, not a precise figure), one would expect to find far more regional airline incidents than mainline. This does not appear to be the case.

Always willing to be educated and told that I'm wrong...however, I'd like to see the data.

Half wing 05-06-2014 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by CGfalconHerc (Post 1637284)
Yes, the Coast Guard is the smallest branch of the Armed Services. Besides SAR, chasing druggies and saving lost penguins, we serve under the Navy during times of war. CG pilots go through Navy Flight Training alongside Navy/Marine SNA's and are winged as Naval/CG Aviators. Many have given their lives in the service of their country..2 were friends of mine who were killed in helo mishaps.

I think the "guard" the previous poster was referring to was the "National Guard"..but I don't think any of them would consider themselves as "fun boys" while getting shot at over in the sandbox.

Don't want to join this fight, just wanted to answer your "serious" question.

FWIW, had to JS coming back from a funeral on a SW CRJ7..the crew was very gracious to let me sit up with them so my family could make it home and I was impressed with their professionalism and standardization with our cockpit procedures at DL. Thanks again for the ride, guys, if you're reading this!

Thanks for the info on the Guard. Much respect for anyone who serves this country. Should not have made my comment about the guard. Just trying to take a jab at the 1 percenter on this forum that we all have flying at our company/branch.

tom11011 05-06-2014 04:23 PM


Originally Posted by kfahmi (Post 1637518)
Many, many former students of mine are now both regional and mainline pilots. (I've been around for a while.) To a man (and a woman), the mainline pilots all tell me that the only difference between regional operations and mainline operations is the compensation and the general QOL/ morale.

I also fail to see the difference between a CRJ-900 operating SFO-ORD nonstop, vs. a 132-seat mainline A318 flying the same exact route. (Aside from the Airbus's larger passenger capacity.) You're flying the same altitudes, same airspeeds, dealing with the same weather conditions, and operating under the same regulations. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the dramatic difference that supposedly requires all mainline pilots to be Chuck Yeager, while the regional guys are happy just to find the airport.

And if your assertion were true, it would follow that the rate of accidents, incidents, and stupid pilot tricks worthy of CNN coverage would be far higher for regionals than for mainline aircraft. Do you have the data to back up your claim? If so, I'm sure we'd all be interested to see it. A check of airline accident records in the US, over the past ten years, reveals the following accidents that took place in US airspace by US-operated carriers. (It does not include incidents that resulted in no injuries, such as the NWA crew that overflew their destination airport by 150nm a few years back. It also does not include incidents that were clearly due to mechanical failure and were no fault of the crew.)

Regional: Colgan 3407, Comair 5191, and Pinnacle 3701.

Mainline: SWA 1248, SWA 345, UPS 1354, AA 331, CAL 1404.

Obviously this isn't a scientific list, and it only goes back ten years from today. But with regional airlines operating something like 50% of all 121 departures (again, not a precise figure), one would expect to find far more regional airline incidents than mainline. This does not appear to be the case.

Always willing to be educated and told that I'm wrong...however, I'd like to see the data.

My reasoning is simple. Colgan 3407.

kfahmi 05-06-2014 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1637601)
My reasoning is simple. Colgan 3407.

Seriously? The actions of one crew somehow represent the competence of tens of thousands of pilots?

Sure, 3407 was an astonishing display of lethal incompetence. But there have been plenty of gross failures of airmanship at the mainline level. Plenty. I noticed that 3 of the mainline accidents involved SWA aircraft landing. Would you conclue that all SWA pilots therefore aren't qualified to land their aircraft?

legend 05-06-2014 06:19 PM


Originally Posted by kfahmi (Post 1637518)
Many, many former students of mine are now both regional and mainline pilots. (I've been around for a while.) To a man (and a woman), the mainline pilots all tell me that the only difference between regional operations and mainline operations is the compensation and the general QOL/ morale.

I also fail to see the difference between a CRJ-900 operating SFO-ORD nonstop, vs. a 132-seat mainline A318 flying the same exact route. (Aside from the Airbus's larger passenger capacity.) You're flying the same altitudes, same airspeeds, dealing with the same weather conditions, and operating under the same regulations. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the dramatic difference that supposedly requires all mainline pilots to be Chuck Yeager, while the regional guys are happy just to find the airport.

And if your assertion were true, it would follow that the rate of accidents, incidents, and stupid pilot tricks worthy of CNN coverage would be far higher for regionals than for mainline aircraft. Do you have the data to back up your claim? If so, I'm sure we'd all be interested to see it. A check of airline accident records in the US, over the past ten years, reveals the following accidents that took place in US airspace by US-operated carriers. (It does not include incidents that resulted in no injuries, such as the NWA crew that overflew their destination airport by 150nm a few years back. It also does not include incidents that were clearly due to mechanical failure and were no fault of the crew.)

Regional: Colgan 3407, Comair 5191, and Pinnacle 3701.

Mainline: SWA 1248, SWA 345, UPS 1354, AA 331, CAL 1404.

Obviously this isn't a scientific list, and it only goes back ten years from today. But with regional airlines operating something like 50% of all 121 departures (again, not a precise figure), one would expect to find far more regional airline incidents than mainline. This does not appear to be the case.

Always willing to be educated and told that I'm wrong...however, I'd like to see the data.

Good post. Needed to be said.

JamesNoBrakes 05-06-2014 07:50 PM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1637601)
My reasoning is simple. Colgan 3407.

Ah, so then UPS didn't crash a plane and kill a crew recently.

Waitingformins 05-07-2014 06:05 AM

Are ya‘ll really measuring airline performance based on the ability to not crash. Is a post solo student as capable as a CFI because they both don’t have a crash under their belt? If a crash is a really a series of events that were chained together on one trip wouldn’t you want to determine how frequent these same events occurred separately not causing a crash. Would you not also want to measure go-arounds caused by pilot error or runway incursions, or 360 on final for energy mgmt.
There are two different points being made here:
1 The mainline/regional equipment is harder/easier to fly.
Well, mainline pilots are managing more energy
2 The overall operations are equal
Mainline generates the standard and regional matches it. I.e. United introduced CRM as a result of a crash. Colgan merged, went out of business, and washed its name as a result of a crash.


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