ATP mins with options
 

I've got ATP mins 1500/75multi. Small 135 outfit is offering me an f/o position in a King Air 90 with the promise of a quick upgrade (mostly Caribbean flying). My dream is airline. Do I:

a. Take the KA spot and wait to see how the dust settles with the regionals.... or

b. Go to a regional now and pray it doesn't fold in the next year. I'm especially hesitant bc I was thinking Envoy.

Compass is looking like a great place to get in to right now.

I probably wouldn't do Envoy.

King air cause you live in the Caribbean and you can drink rum on the beach.

Kingair and go have some fun for a couple years.

The king air is not going to get you to a major airline. It's slightly possible that you could knock out 1000TPIC in the king air, then go to a regional for some 121 glass jet time and get hired at a major without upgrading.

IMO the more reliable path would be to just go to a regional, take the first upgrade and try for check airman as soon as they let you.

A little background info:

-Flight Safety CFI grad
-Age:29
-no 4 year college degree (tho I plan on completing this)
-not married/no kids


King Air job is:
-based in Stuart,FL (30 min drive from home)
-doesn't pay particularly well

I ask virtually every pilot I come in contact with their opinion and ultimately they lean towards 121. I hear a lot of "now's the time to get in", and "if I was ur age with that time I would go for airline". Also, I can't help but feel like I'm missing out on seniority not applying now.

KA, your missing nothing at the regionals.

If you want to be an airline pilot, I'd suck it up and go to a regional. I see low time guys fall into the turbine corporate trap all the time - it might be a good job for a 1500 hour pilot, but time is of the essence, and most corporate jobs won't put time into your logbook very quickly. Plus, you're counting on an upgrade in a situation where the right seat time is dubious at best. I wouldn't be happy with that either.

I'd let the dust settle a bit. The big question is how important is QOL vs. getting to an airline? How does the KA job pay compared to a regional where you will be abused and either have to move or be subjected to commuting. At 29 you are not so old to wait it out a yr and see if you upgrade on the KA.

The majors are going to try and destroy whatever is left of the "good" regionals. But, they have tremendous headwinds in operating their old whipsaw game. See how it plays out.

Says the guy from PSA that sold the rest of the industry out.


No regional airline will fold anytime soon, nobody can get enough pilots, don't worry about that part.

You will only be young and single without kids once.. well, maybe not the single part.. enjoy a different type of flying that you will probably never be in a position to do again. The airlines will always be waiting for you when you are ready.

Just make sure it is a safe operation with good maintenance. I've heard too many stories and have known a few that didn't live past the fly-by-night operations experience, especially cargo.

Pay sucks at the regionals too

Go King Air.

There's more to life than slaving away with a dysfunctional regional airline, a pilot union cartel that drains your bank account and offers nothing, and scheduling who is constantly looking to screw you.

[QUOTE=rickair7777;1668454]The king air is not going to get you to a major airline. It's slightly possible that you could knock out 1000TPIC in the king air, then go to a regional for some 121 glass jet time and get hired at a major without upgrading.

IMO the more reliable path would be to just go to a regional, take the first upgrade and try for check airman as soon as they let you.


Don't listen to this guy... He is a lifer CRJ captain who will never progress in this industry anymore than he has now. Take the King AIR job, have fun, build time and upgrade you will be more qualified in a few years doing that than most regional guys out there. 121 is the easiest flying you will do in your life... Enjoy the challenge of 135

Just out of curiosity; if a company's mins are 1500/100, and I have 1500/75, will they even consider me?

What's the outfit in Stuart?

This guy is 29 years old....not 21. "Go have fun" I feel is bad advice. You only have a fixed amount of years to be an airline pilot. Why can't he have fun being single and able to use CASS to travel wherever he wants? I'm sure the pay on a 135 KA in south florida is no better and may even be worse than year one regional. Every 135 operator down there is going to tell you "you'll upgrade quick", and are also known for shady practices with maintenance and pay. I flew down there for 4 years.

Also keep in mind that KA90 is not loggable from the right seat except in a few cases. It may be allowed at this operator since it is 135 but make sure you check.

With growth, flows, and other attrition compass should move lightning fast. Leading to good QoL, and pay. Every year you aren't at an airline trying to move to a major is a year you miss on the top end of the payscale.


I never told him to go to PSA. Way to bring up a totally unrelated subject though just to get a shot in. I voted no. Grow up.

Are you really advocating this guy go to Envoy?

Small, relatively new biz jet management company. Just got their 135 for the KA. I'll leave it at that.

The business decision would dictate 121. I speculate there are more 10 year 135 guys who would jump over to 121 at year 10 if they could, than 10 year 121 guys wanting to go to what a 10 year 135 guy has obtained. Of course there are exceptions. As far as “enjoying life” goes you would have to look back at the past ten years of your life and decide what you have been doing. Have you been busting balls or playing and piddling?

If you take the 135 gig, stay on them about the upgrade, even after 6 months. 500 hours (1000 is better) of PIC turbine is a good box to check for other jobs. Sure, there are legacy airlines in which there is no official PIC turbine requirement. However, you'll be more competitive.

As for which one, I'll just say that 135 time will make you a better and well-rounded pilot in the long run. Also, having 135 or a corporate background will make you more competitive for more interim flying jobs when you get furloughed from an airline. After you get your 135 PIC turbine time, go to some regional to check the glass/121 box and you'll be golden. Barbie jets and the transition to glass will be easy after flying a King Air around.

After the newness and honeymoon phase is over (strangely, this seems to happen when you see your first pay-stub), regional flying will suck the life out of you and it will be challenging for you to stay optimistic about your airline career track.

Either way, good luck.

Thanks for the responses. It has taken a lot of time and dedication to get to this point in my career. As much as I want to be that well rounded pilot, I can hear the clock ticking to get the airline thing going. I realize that it's gonna be tough at a regional which is why I wanna start sooner rather than later. Putting in my dues flying a King Air only to turn around and have to do it again at a regional sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

Does anyone think I'm hampered by having only 75multi vs. the 100multi some regionals require? That would also factor into my decision.

If you do the king air for a couple hundred hours of logged time it will give you a backup in the event of a furlough later. King Air time is hard to get and you can never tell when you will need it. I would do the King Air for 6-12 months while working HARD on your degree, then go to a regional.

KA is the way to go if offered a job. But get your degree if you have your sights set on DAL, UAL, or AA.

Even overseas jobs prefer crewmember with a college degree.

By they way... take a look at the pathetic pay rates at the regionals. The best part is that you'll probably draw a base in the most expensive parts of the US too.

Unfortunately, I need to boost my income before I can continue my education. I am still paying off my time at FSA.

Which place pays you more? KA or Regional. I hope KA.
I say get PIC time, regionals will always be there.

Life is a journey, it should be interesting and stimulating, 33 vs 36 years at a 121 airline is moot. The best flying years I had were not in the 121 realm. Go to Alaska and fly a Beaver on floats, go to the Bahamas and fly the Keys, go do something you can look back on when you are sitting in the 121 seat. 121 airline work is, well, at least the paycheck is not too bad......

What makes you all think a 135 gig in South Florida, a place notorious for poor working conditions and pay as well as shady ownership, will be so much better than being at Compass, or wherever? Because you get to land your airplane at MYGF or see some clear water?

He can visit the caribbean on his time off.

The safe route is regional.....

Good luck whichever you choose.

I have spent the last 16 months as a CFI in South Florida. I have been fortunate enough to be the "head CFI" right under the Chief Pilot. I had a lot of fun flights thrown my way: Bahamas check-out (at least 10), photo flights, Cirrus flights, more times VFR to Key West than I can count. I have had and amazing time but my feeling is that I need to move on. Not to mention the non-vetted Chinese kids are either going to kill me, or get my certificate yanked.

Shouldn't be a problem at all. I know guys hired at XJT in the last six months with 25 multi, but most regionals require only 50 hours multi. The "100 hr" arbitrary standard is largely a thing of the past.

Sounds like you had a good run but it's time to move on. I think a lot of us were in your shoes at some point. I recently chose the regionals because of the flexibility of living wherever I want (within reason). Worst case scenario I get irritated with it and quit after a year with a PIC type and turbine experience, but I'm going to stick it out since I'll most likely be upgrading in a couple of years.

So we are to think you actually know this is true? What a presumptuous statement. Many of the lifer captains stuck at American regionals are superb pilots who paid more than a fair penance climbing to the left seat. They continue to sweat it out in a tough, underpaying job hoping for a chance to interview at a major one day. Regale us with what you did that was so different and what made your foresight so superior.

The regional airlines are more desperate than Roger Cohen in a pool full of 90 year old hookers.

As long as you show up with an eager smile to be enslaved, you're in.

Go to a regional and work on your degree while you wait to upgrade. King Air TPIC and a HS diploma is not going to get you hired at a top-tier major. I'm not sure about some of the second tiers, that might be in the cards if that would work for you.

I think this is ultimately what I'm going to do. Compass is looking pretty good right now too.

Last I heard i thought Compass required a 4 year degree.

It's preferred not required.

My few pennies...

Be very very careful of the small operators flying from FL to the Islands.

Not all operators are reputable and not everything that comes on board in the cargo or otherwise on the plane, MAY be eligible to be brought in to the US.....

Many people have been burnt by the charm of Caribbean flying. Don't be another statistic...

Be careful & choose wisely....

Best of luck in whatever you decide...

Is the pay better or worse than a regional? I ask because the location caught my attention. If you prefer to discuss via PM, just let me know.

I would say about the same. I was offered a retainer and daily stipend when the plane flew. Depending oh how often that is the pay could be decent or dismal.

Thanks for the info. If you decide not to take the job, and they are looking for other pilots, I wouldn't mind finding out more info from you.

As mentioned before, the location was appealing to me. Looking for currency after I apply for the majors. Though I am not discounting the regionals at all, I like to consider all options that involve flying in South Florida.

If your goal is the majors, go to a regional. You'll end up going there anyway. Source: king air pilot turned regional pilot.