Time away as a regional pilot
 

I am considering an airline pilot job but have some questions about how much time I can expect to be away from my family. (I'm at about 550 hours now and instructing, so hope to get my ATP in the next year or two)

How probable is it to fly for a regional airline and be away less than 7 nights a month if I do not commute? Are there certain airlines that are better for this than others? I'm assuming that the less you are away the less money you'll be able to make (in picking up trips, etc. ).

I would appreciate any advice concerning the time away aspect. I know the pay is low for the first few years, but hopefully with a military retirement I can make up for that.

Thank you!

On reserve. You will usually be free only 7 days.
Line Holder. Unless you're senior to have day trips or two days, you will be off from 12 to 17 days.

That's a general rule, now just depend which airline and where are you going to be based.

Total for the month 7 days off? Really?

I don't commute and it really isn't all that terrible. On reserve, as long as you aren't airport reserve, you spend a lot of time home with the family. If you figure that you have 11 days off a month, you'll be in your bed an additional 4-6 days on the last days of reserve/trips at a minimum. Contracts vary as well. For some regionals, it is a stipulation that you cannot spend more than 4 consecutive nights out of domicile.

Living in base is KEY. I'm very junior at my airline, just finished training in March and I was actually only gone 7 nights during the entire month of June. That is not always going to happen tho. Between the mix of not getting called on reserve a few times and getting day trips or 2 day trips when called, I was only gone those 7 nights last month. The month of July I will be gone 14 nights as I have a line now. It just varies but living in base is a must if you want to see your family as much as possible. The month of May I was gone 14 nights and the month of April I was gone 8 nights. Those months were on reserve too. You'll get a guaranteed 11-12 days off a month on reserve depending on your airline.

Picture this: You're home on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday each week. Then, as your wife is ramping up for a sunny summer weekend with friends, you leave, and come back the next Tuesday.

A couple of things from a gray area retiree...

First, your military retirement pay will be more than your regional pay for the first few years (assuming you retired from active-duty military). If you can, live on your retirement pay alone. I am living on regional pay plus a small pension from a previous employer. My National Guard retirement pay kicks in at 60.

Second, as a new-hire, at any level, you will likely be on reserve. The duration depends on the hiring rate at your carrier and how long it continues after you are hired. I only did two months of reserve as a new-hire. At my previous carrier, it was seven months as a new-hire.

Third, most regionals have a reserve guarantee of 75 hours. You'll be paid 75 hours if you don't fly at all or fly 74:59. Above 75, you get straight hourly rate in most cases. When you are on duty, you will receive expense pay of $X.XX per hour/ time away from base (TAFB). Think of this as BAQ/BAS but much less. If on an overnight, it's usually tax-free.

I commute, but have been able to get overnights at home. I had one trip with three consecutive nights at home. That was nice. Commuting sucks, but the alternative is unemployment which sucks a lot more. If you have the chance to be based where you live, take it. I will be transferring soon (I hope!) to a city where I can commute and drive, if needed. I did this at my previous carrier and that wasn't too bad but still not as good as living where I was based.

Good luck!

Divorce...

This^^^^^

It can make the difference between not ever being home and actually having a decent family life no matter how junior you are.

Where do you want to live? And is your family willing to live there as well?

ORD, MSP, IAH,...

Do you plan to sit in the right seat of an RJ for however long it would take you to have a similar schedule in the left seat? Do you plan on staying at a regional airline or are you hoping to get to a Legacy? If the latter is the case I'd start seriously reconsidering the profession if minimal time away from home is your goal.

If you live in base it might not be that bad. You could go weeks without getting called best case.

But that's very dependent on staffing for the equipment, domicile, and season. Unfortunately new-hires don't usually have a lot of choice, if any, as to where they get based.

Once you're off reserve as a junior lineholder, you'll probably do four days until you get enough seniority to hold standups or locals. Once you're senior enough (>40% might be a good guess) then you can bid all locals and be home every night, assuming your domicile has a typical amount of locals.

But it will take some luck to get into a reserve situation where you don't get called much as a new-hire.

Good idea, doing the research before putting the bikini on. The reality of this business is its unpredictable nature. Things will change, domiciles will open and close, scheduling software will change, work rules as well. If you have a wife/girlfriend, prepare for a change unless they are very forgiving/understanding. Think every birthday, holiday, family event will be missed on average. You might get the 4th off but miss your wife's birthday as well as others. This job cost me my longterm(15 year) girlfriend,and most of my friends are airline employed. Most people don't understand this business and when you decline the 9th party invite, they just stop coming/asking. Make no mistake this job is more than 9-5, it is a lifestyle, and it is not for everyone. If it works for you, then well welcome to the circus!

The word, "starter wife" comes to mind!:eek:

If you do not commute like you put in your post, then once you become senior enough, a lot of airlines have "fly me last" for the reserves. You could go a long time with out spending a night in a hotel. It's been since April for me. Your mileage may vary.

Given how short the regionals are on pilots now, you will be flying on reserve. The shorter airlines are on pilot, the more reserves they will have. You will be looking at 11 days off, 10 at some regionals. That means they will be flying you the other 19-20 days of the month. Again, as they are short on pilots and will be for the forceable future, you may not be just sitting at home like some of us got accustomed to-they will fly you a lot. Im seeing this now as a 4 year reserve, being used every single day, spending 18-19 nights away from home. This is the new reality in the ugly regional industry.

My bad... 11 days off.

That is true at YOUR regional but not true at all. I have friends on reserve at various regionals and they hardly get used at all. Other regionals, you'll be on reserve a short period of time and be holding a line relatively shortly following IOE. It also depends on which base you go to. To say that all regionals will have you 18-19 days away from home is actually ridiculous. Even if you have a brutal contract which allows you to be away from domicile for 6 days straight, you'll only overnight 5 of those days. As an absolute WORST case scenario, assuming you fly 18 days, you'll be at home and in your bed an additional 3 nights. That means, at the very least, if you don't commute, you'll be in your bed 14 nights each month. That number goes up if you end up back in domicile more.

As an example, next month I have 12 days off and will be in my bed 20 nights. That doesn't take into consideration that on 4 of my trips, I'll be home before 11 am.

Commuting to reserve, you get about 4 to 7 days at home a month depending on what the commute is. As a senior lineholder living in base, about 250 hours away a month.

From a bunch of my buddies at Trans States, I heard the most recent bid had 11-12 days off for nearly everyone despite seniority.

When I was there, and had gotten "senior" as an FO, then upgraded to Captain it was rare that I got more than 15 days off/month...15 days off a month is awesome...the odd thing though was thinking that I spent half a year on the road...And that was the BEST of times...averaged closer to 12 days off a month.

Sfitz,
Living in base is the key to being out of your own bed as little as possible. That said, if you don't think you can handle living out of a suitcase for 15-20 nights a month, you will NOT last long as an airline pilot. The job description is simple: travel. That means a lot of nights in hotel rooms, a lot of nights waking up and having no clue where you are; walking into walls on the way to the bathroom; not getting home when you planned; missing family time, and on and on.

I don't usually try to dissuade people, but you will be years away from this kind of schedule, and that's if your company--when you are eventually hired--even has them. FAR 117 has made it much harder to schedule these kinds of trips, so if for some reason you don't want to be away from home more than 2 nights a week, or can't be away from home more than 2 nights a week (say, if you have a special needs kid, an elderly parent that needs help, etc.), you need to consider another line of work. Even in the airlines, there are jobs that don't require travel.

If I may be so bold, is this question based on a genuine need, or is this just something you prefer?

In all honesty, about half of your life time until you retire.
fbh

You're overstating the case. A guy who sits reserve and lives on assigned domicile is not gone 20 nights a month. This whole "gypsies need only apply" is a vestige of a commuter-biased lifestyle. The only normalized hardship of the lifestyle from a in-domicile perspective is that of getting the family to tolerate the fact your hard days off will never fall on the weekends, when the rest of the world socializes with each other. That does make airline pilots relative pariahs.

From a cursory look at my coworkers at the squadron, the in-base guys enjoy a home life not dramatically different than the 9-5 guy, while earning a hell of a lot more than a 9-5 guy for a hell of a lot less work and politics endured. These guys are all mainline of course.

I'll also plug the 'better' simulator outfits as viable work alternatives. That's a pretty good salary for zero work. The shifts suck these days with the ramp-up, but you're home every night. Dozing for dollars. Something to look into.

You might try looking at it differently and consider days that you are totally gone from home- ie not touching home that day.

Consider if you had a line of flying that was groups of back to back 2 day trips you would touch home every day.

On a 3 day trip there is only 1 day of the trip that you are totally gone.

on a 4 day trip 2 days that you are totally gone. Thats why IMHO 4 days seem so much worse than a 3 day.

I know much of the quality of this depends on the duty in and duty out times of the said trips but just throwing that out there...

This is some really good insight. This is more of a preference than a need. I'm in the military and my wife has endured year long deployments and her Father has flown for Delta/Northwest for the last 30 years, so she understands the lifestyle. I just wanted to know if it was possible to not be gone "a lot", I understand that I will be gone.

That said, are there certain airlines that are better than others for minimizing time away? Or is it all about getting a junior base? Or any other recommendations? Thanks for all the info!

Okay, nothing beats living in base with your family except for a good contract...and that's iffy. I'm at XJT. Second airline so I know the good and the bad. I came here for for the contract and so I could live in base. 16 days off this month plus I usually am able to swap for trips that have long overnights close to home where I can use my car rental discount and drive home which gives me an extra 2-3 nights at home per month.

It took almost a year for this but it was worth it. Love the contract, love not having to commute. Hope this helps, good luck!

I'm not sure why people are making it sound so easy to live in base as a new regional pilot. If you want to live in base be prepared to uproot your family every few months for the first few years and after that every few years as your company opens and closes bases as they please.

I live in base. My friend didn't. I enjoy my life and time off. He didn't. Then he moved his family to his base. Now, he's happy.

That sounds pretty simple to me.

Uproot your family every few months for the first few years?? Uh...........

family life and regional do not belong in the same sentence. guaranteed to miss every milestone and your vacations will not match those of your family.
if aviation is your thing but you want to be home most nights look for something in a support function but stay away from being a line pilot

A few things come to mind.

First, as an airline pilot, you should expect to travel, maybe a lot. You know this about the job though.

Second, you should expect to be junior for the first decade of your career, in ups and downs. Junior regional FO, then a junior regional Captain starting over with a bad schedule, then if you move on to the legacies, your a junior FO again etc..

Third, there are situations such as trainings that are going to keep you away for long periods. Your initial training, you might be gone for 8 weeks with no opportunity for a flight home to visit. Maybe you can bring the wife and kids up to see you for a day though, but you really need to be studying as much as possible. These kinds of trainings are going to occur every now and then where you are gone for a while.

Fourth, there are those airlines who open and close bases frequently. Many pilots start off saying they are not going to commute only to have the base they work in close 6 months after closing on your new house.

Fifth, what type of personality does your wife or significant other have? Is she the needy, winy, clingy type? If so, it will cause problems and stress in your marriage and life. Hard to have an argument (a discussion) 1000 miles away over the phone.

Sixth, then there is missing all the birthdays, parties, anniversaries, family outings, child growth, etc.. Even a senior pilot with the best possible schedule runs into situations where things must be missed.

To some degree, everyone is looking for what you are looking for, stability. But its good you are asking because you are certainly asking the right questions. There is no college course or ground school that covers 'Real life as an Airline Pilot' (new reality show?). But do be honest with yourself on whether it is the right fit for you and the family.

This is not the case for me. I've been able to attend nearly all of my families major events! I am also home more than I'm gone. Oh and when you're home you're home! No paper work no projects from work to work on at home, nothin! I live in base though. My advise would be to wait til you can hold the base you wouldn't mind living in and then when you get the award go ahead and move. Of course there's always the risk of base closures and displacements but it's definitely a different and more enjoyable job when you can drive to work!

For the month I June I spent 2 nights away from home and flew 4 days on reserve. But- I was the most senior guy on reserve and I got lucky.

Sounds like your airline honors reserve seniority rules, not all do.

And therein lies the difference. Regional vs. mainline is night and day.

It really does come down to living in base to minimize your time away, especially at a regional. To take that to the next step, if you really want to minimize it, live in the largest base, where the company has the most flexibility with the schedules. As you can see, the experience level is all over the place. But, avoiding the "non-hub" domiciles minimizes the risk of a base closure.

At the regionals, you WILL start out with 15-20 days working each month, but living in domicile can easily get you several more nights at home.

You asked about which carriers will give you the best chance of that happening. Since you are at least a year, and maybe 18 months, from getting hired, that's too hard to say. The airline you don't want to work for today may be the best one to go to later, and vice versa. Generally speaking, the larger the carrier, the better the odds, but who knows? What if your airline of choice stops or slows hiring?

If you're willing to move, it's worth looking at a map of all of the major domiciles and start asking yourself where you'd like to live or where you'd like to avoid living, then apply accordingly. If you plan to try to go to the majors, you can deal with that issue then, but at some point, I would imagine you will want to settle down.

The point about "being home means you're home" is one not to be missed. The only time you will be doing anything on your off days will be when you need to study for recurrent. Otherwise, when you are not working, you are free to do as you please.

If OP were to go to your regional (whatever that may be), how long would he need to wait to get that 18-day off schedule? With his military retirement he could live on that income and remain an FO to ensure eternal seniority and better schedules.

Well Endeavor would be about 8-9 years at this point. Though if you came from the blessed company 9 years would get you halfway up the captain list so.....

I'm on track to make $55k this year, and at LEAST 15 days off/mo in base in DEN. 4th year pay at SKW, CRJ FO. Not great, but could be worse I guess. Trying to move on to something better, but I do love living in base with a good schedule.

Numbers like that are thrown out everyonce in a while, but typically has more to do with a pilots familiarity with how to "work the system" inside their company's constraints...end result, it's not the "norm" for most pilots with a company...

I know it's all about how a company works "soft time" and that it's possible to make big $$ with certain airliners...but if EVERY pilot was doing it at that company, the company would be out of business...I'd be more curious what a 4 year CRJ FO makes who simply "flies the line".

I simply fly the line, I do no tricks, I pick nothing up, and I drop stuff when I can. We have no reserves, so I pretty much never drop anything anymore unfortunately. I bid about 50% in my base and mostly fly the 700. This month I'm crediting 90 hours, 15 days off. Pretty typical for me.

I doubt the company would be out of business, because 1) I'm still WAY underpaid and 2) I'm just an average line pilot.

Your math doesn't work 90x43(the rate 4 yr FO at oo) is $3870 which is 46k without subtracting ins. Taxes etc which puts you closer to 38k. At least be honest with these guys.