ASA MEC update regarding XJT MEC
 

The ASA MEC (Master Executive Council) and the XJT MEC convened a joint meeting this week to discuss open issues with the JCBA (Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement), as well as how to move forward in a manner that represents the best interests of both groups. On Wednesday, the Company presented the joint MECs a financial briefing and reiterated their desire to move negotiations as quickly as possible. During this presentation, the financial situation of the Company was described by the Company as being a direct result of many factors, such as not achieving many of the combined efficiencies within labor groups, the extreme weather impact in comparison to previous years, missed completion and on-time performance incentives, and challenges with various reimbursement rates from major partners to cover rising costs associated with network and regulatory change requirements. It was candidly observed by the ASA MEC that the majority of the factors listed by the Company as contributing to the poor financial and operational performance were directly attributable to the decision to acquire XJT Airlines. At the conclusion of the briefing, the meeting was adjourned to allow both groups to separate and discuss amongst themselves the information that was presented.

On Thursday morning, the joint meeting resumed with the voting members discussing numerous ideas, viewpoints and concerns important to both groups. At times the meeting contained very candid discussions with spirited interaction.

A majority of the conversation centered on PBS (Preferential Bidding Systems) and the discrepancies between the two vendors being discussed for the combined pilot group to use in the JCBA. The ASA representatives made every attempt to educate and inform the XJT representatives of the known pitfalls associated with the globalized PBS system known as SmartPref currently being advocated for by some members of the XJT MEC. Furthermore, the ASA representatives strived to show the XJT representatives the whipsaw that is being created by actively negotiating an unproven system and the attendant waste of negotiating capital and efforts.

During these discussions, the XJT representatives were queried as to why neither the ASA CNC (Contract Negotiating Committee) nor the ASA PWG (PBS Working Group) were consulted before XJT committee members approached the Company to negotiate for SmartPref outside of the JCBA, an action specifically prohibited by the TPA (Transition and Process Agreement). It became clear that it was an incorrect understanding of their representatives that the ASA CNC was made aware of this meeting. No explanation was provided to the ASA MEC as to why some XJT MEC and committee members engaged in a course of action that was clearly detrimental to the ASA pilot group as well as to the overall goal of negotiating a JCBA.

At one point, the officers of both groups met in caucus with the JNC (Joint Negotiating Committee) and ALPA National staff members. Unfortunately, this meeting started with a disappointing tone, as the XJT Officers expressed disbelief in the financial briefing and communicated a refusal to even partially acknowledge the Company’s current financial condition. Equally disturbing in the context of a JCBA, the XJT MEC appears to still operate under the impression that having two separate pilot labor agreements is acceptable to the pilots and the company. This behavior threatens the livelihood and wellbeing of every pilot at XJT, whether they fly a CRJ or an ERJ.
The next joint meeting of the ASA and XJT MECs has been tentatively scheduled for August 11th, to be held in Atlanta. The ASA representatives were very appreciative of the XJT representatives’ candor but still remain cautious moving forward.

One List or NOTHING!

The L-XJT MEC seems to be pretty committed to the latter.

That's ok by me if the alternative is concessions. People just need to get over themselves and realize that 83% of us already said no to concessions. It's not personal.

Yikes! I really thought things were getting better. New contract or two old contracts you still have the anchor around your neck that is your entire ATL management team. I don't see the company surviving without functioning management.

The problem is (and always has been) that one sides "no concessions" is not necessarily supported by the other side.

That certainly is ONE problem. It should be that no side should support concessions for either side!

When one sorts through the fluff, there is one fundamental issue:

If LXJT has agreed that some sort of PBS system needs to be implemented (which is different than the current system of line bidding ), why then are they insisting on SmartPref to be the vendor?

Who disputes the facts given to the LASA side that "It's a slick "GUI" written around a 1990s algorithm that ran the 1st generation PBS TWA used. Every other airline group (except the XJT ERJ side) has passed on it. It has no users, and no support. It will take a great expense and time commitment to get working."

You will be hard-pressed to find anyone on the LASA side that has anything positive to say about the A-Tech management team. As far as I am concerned, a dead cadaver could do a better job of running this airline than the present team.

I'm not giving up a dime. Close up if you can't afford to pay me. Its that simple!

The ASA MEC side is ok with the ERJ side giving up our B fund, reduced 401k matching, less per diem, more costly health insurance, less sick accrual, no excused sick calls, less LTD benefits, no OJI bank, check in, reassignment windows, etc. In NONE of those areas will the CRJ side be taking any concessions that the ERJ side will. In fact, despite the concessions you would've gotten on that last TA, there were many gains thanks to the current ERJ contract. But the ASA MEC INSISTS that despite all of the concessions coming to the ERJ side, they will dictate everything. Well, it seems like the XJT MEC side wants to try smartpref (it doesn't matter why but the only reason is because they believe it's better than flight line in regards to the ERJ schedules). So answer this simple question, if flight line is so much better and smartpref is so much worse, then what is wrong with keeping the Process Agreement for Interim and Single PBS?

To me it seems like a very small bone to throw to the side who is taking the brunt of the concessions management wants us to take.

I have no objections to using an agreed-upon process to figure out which PBS system we are going to use.

When it comes to retirement plans and the OJI bank are concerned, I'd ask if United, Delta, or American has the same sort of deal. If this is something that all the majors have, then I would be hard-pressed to give it up. However, if on the other hand L-XJT is the only airline out there with these kinds of benefits and Skywest Airlines, Republic, and Eagle(Envoy) or even the majors are not actively negotiating for these benefits, then I would call these items unsustainable.

And the XJT MEC voted to send a TA that got rid of the B Fund, and the OJI bank, and no excused sick calls, and reduced 401k matching, and reduced per diem, and reduced sick accrual, and more costly health insurance, and less valuable LTD, and to give us check in, and reassignment windows, and ACARS reassignments, and PBS.

So who should be complaining here?

You base your negotiations and pilot needs for security on another pilot group is that correct.

There's NO MORE MONEY. No more. Time to cut you loose. Your contract is not sustainable, it's a horrible money loser. So you should be fine with that. The ASA MEC is looking out for ASA pilots, not LXJTs. Happy sword falling!

AnchorDown

Our contract is not a money loser. The CPA that management negotiated is the money loser. But go ahead and PSA us if you want. I'm fine with not being part of a pilot group associated with those tactics. I'll gladly fall on my sword if it comes to that. You can have your PSA type tactics.

Good, cuz it's going to come to that. PSA took concessions, ASA has NEVER taken concessions. Has Legacy? Let me grab that sword, so you can hurl yourself on it.

AnchorDown

You would be voting in concessions for 2/3 of our pilots just to help shut us down and you get to live another day. That's worse than PSAing us. But like I said, I'll gladly take that sword instead of stooping to that level.

Good, cant help you dude. I got to do what's best for my pilot group, not yours. Our pilots will still not take a pay cut to do the same job and I'm certainly not falling on a sword for you. You want to call it PSA? I don't care. You're Comair. Seeya.

AnchorDown

Sounds like ASA guys are willing to PSA it... Lol!

ASA pilots have grown tired of the XJT children and are going to do what is in their best interests.

Like I said, I commend you for at least admitting to your tactics even though both MECs have already previously agreed to a process to get to one PBS. But go ahead and Comair us and stand proud side by side with the likes of PSA and the original Freedom and gojets.

Why? Just because the ASA MEC doesn't want to use the process both MECs have already previously agreed to in order to get to one PBS system?

Nevets, if you think that the selection of a PBS vendor is a "small bone" to be thrown around like a parting gift, then you need to solicit input from PBS-using pilots at several different airlines and listen real good! I'll tell you to be very wary of any globalized or optimized solution. Just as important, make sure that you have crystal clear language regarding parameters, premium pay, pairing construction, and transparency in any accompanying contract language.

"outdated airframes on an outdated contract with an outdated mentality."

just wanted to add, "and no money."

AnchorDown

well said, been talking like for years. :cool:

I dont disagree. But in comparison to the laundry list of concessions that management wants from the ERJ side, a process (which has been previously agreed to by both MEC) to choose a single PBS is just a bone.

Fifty seat jets are outdated. What's your point? And why is our contract outdated? Because it's the best in the industry? Do you guys even listen to what you say? Or are you management? Because you are saying EXACTLY the same things!

This is absurd! As long as management is paying for two sets of management personnel, two sets of office staff, two sets of facilities for SOC, two sets of systems management, two sets of EVERYTHING, there will always be money on the table! Why should we sacrifice money out of our compensation so that management can spend it on two VPs of everything?! And for what? So that they can perpetuate this whipsaw?

You guys are talking crazy.

Where did ASA break the PBS process agreement? Comair had the best in the industry too, which is how you got your 2004 Contract, how they doin?

Hey don't worry, I'll be sure to mention you after you've fallen on your sword. Can't wait really. You'll be the greatest pilot martyr of all time.


AnchorDown

You can't wait for LXJT to fall on a sword. How about you just vote yes or no, and stop wishing harm on other pilots. I know you're the small minority that thinks that way but it's sad to read.

I didn't know I was God? Thank you. Whatever I wish, guess what? I have no control over. You want me to stop wishing nevets fall on his sword? Cuz that's who I'm talking to. Didn't know I was in a conversation with you?

AnchorDown

After readng the thread about this on the pipe, I believe there is NO way this merger can work. One of the ASA guys stated his/her opinion on flightline and all the name calling and bashing of him/her is pathetic. If that is an adequate representation of that pilot group then I want nothing to do with them!

Wow...love to see this conversation face to face...pretty brave people on here tonight. My bet is these "fellow pilots" would be much more civil to each other, sound like children in a school yard here. I personally wouldn't wish harm on any pilot in this profession just because he doesn't agree with me...

I'm seriously embarrassed to be associated with pilots that think this way. Most of all I really feel bad for those that think they can just turn their backs and let the problem go away. If that is how guys feel, karma is going to have a blast with them.

I'll tell you one thing. If it weren't for the strong, passionate self valued pilots of the ERJ side, you can bet your butts 83% would have not been attainable. In fact I'm willing to bet that TA would have been governing our lives as we speak. From the sounds of it, most of the "company guys" hail from the ASA side.

The entire regional industry owes the LXJT guys some credit for standing strong. Give em a freaking break.

83% requires both sides... Go find some adults to cheer for.... then someone here tell me how violating the TPA (Transition and Process Agreement) and negotiating for SmartPref outside of the JCBA (apparently in secret) is pulling in one direction?

This is what you want the pilots at Skywest to vote in? Really man.

Well, if the ASA MEC doesn't have a problem with it, then why are they complaining that we are developing smartpref? That's part of that agreement.

Again, this management is spending millions in order to have two separate airlines in order to whipsaw us more. All pilots should be supporting our contract, not against it like management.

It's essentially part of the Process Agreement for Interim and Single PBS.

I want Skywest pilots to certify SAPA as their NMB recognized bargaining agent and demand an end to this whipsaw. At the very least you have a real voice and join us in making this profession safer.

Nevets,
The intent of this agreement was for the JCBA and did not take into account the JCBA failing. However it did. Now that SmartPref could be negotiated and implemented while the JCBA is being negotiated, we have set ourselves up for a whipsaw between our groups on one more level. Nearly every concern the XJT group has such as being locked out can be dealt with in rules.
Regards,
Redundant Guy

Being without a JCBA for almost 4 years can be said to be continuing the whipsaw that management envisioned back in 2008. So I completely see where you are coming from. With that said, developing, testing, parallel bidding now only shortens the timeline in that agreement, which was problematic to some from what I understand. Lastly, if flight line is so great and smartpref is so horrible, then none of us have anything to worry about. In fact, I could see a scenario in which we reject smartpref because it's not what we were told it was and just go with flight line in the JCBA without much fight other than to make sure we have the right work rules (vacation low, etc).

I think that if we just let this play itself out, it will take care of itself. In the end, we are being Comaired anyways, right? We will be so small that any concessionary TA for the ERJ side will be voted through anyway, right? Or we will be shrunk to nothing and only the CRJ side will continue. These are all things that have been more or less said on this thread. So you have all the cards and have nothing to worry about. Let us fall on our smartpref sword so you don't have to deal with us and our contract.

Nevets, your die-hard loyalty to your team is admirable but uninformed. Your MEC has been meeting with management behind the backs of the Joint committee AND the L-ASA MEC. This is directly counter to agreements signed between the parties. I for one am no longer interested in supporting a group that is only interested in reciprocating as long as it benefits them.

Why is it that when the ASA MEC acts in the best interest of their constituents, it's ok. But when the XJT MEC does the same, the other side takes it personal? The XJT MEC feels like smartpref is in their pilots best interest. The ASA MEC feels that flight line is. It's not personal. The agreement spells out the process to get to a single PBS. And now the ASA MEC doesn't want to abide by that agreement. My understanding is that ASA people will now be part of the negotiations, as allowed in the T&PA. So I don't see they as a problem going forward anymore. The ASA MEC agrees to abide by the Process Agreement for Interim and Single PBS and the XJT MEC will have ASA people be part of the smartpref negotiations. So what's the problem?