Excellent! Now your skills are more valuable. You are worth more than others who do not have your skill set.

But from what I understand (admittedly little since I have had an ATP since 2000) is that if one meets the hour requirements, a company (if they choose) can provide the sim time and written test to finish up the ATP. Again, I may be wrong. But the great thing is those of us who have an ATP are more valuable than those who do not.

The entitlement folks will cry fowl. But too bad. There was a time when a Comm was enough to fly an airliner. The rules are the rules: learn them, live by them, find the cracks, and move on.

And don't for a minute think that schools won't figure out a way for a guy who has 2000 hours and 135 time to get an ATP (or at least get everything that the regionals won't provide).

Regionals will shrink. How much depends on the passengers. If Armpit, Arkansas citizens are willing to pay $1.50 an hour more (on a 50 pax plane) the crew will split about $60/hour (40 pax * 1.50). Otherwise, Armpit won't have air service. If they aren't willing to pay, they will cry, and service goes away. Too bad, so sad, tough *******, next case.

The companies that WILL suffer are the 135 operators that require an ATP (those that have an endorsement eg. CAMTS or the like) to fly a plane that does not require a type rating. Attracting an ATP will get more expensive. Unintended consequence: In the case of CAMTS (air ambulance) companies, unless insurance, medicare, medicade, payments go up, either patients will pay more, or they won't fly.

Aren't most regionals just requiring the ATP written be completed? If a person had the hours from the local FBO and has completed the written they would still qualify to be hired AFAIK.

Umm wrong? You can get hired with no degree and 1500TT. Or with a degree in something else and 1500TT. The degree thing allows one to get hired with 1000TT. 500 hrs isn't a big deal IMO and I'd probably stick it out to avoid riddle.

Huh. I guess the airline that just hired me didn't get the memo, cuz I did all my training at FBOs and my degree is in psychology.

But to "complete" the written you have to have the new training program. An airline can offer the training program to it's new hires but the FAA has made very clear the ATP CTP and basic indoc are two separate classes. Does any airline have an approved ATP CTP? It's going to get very interesting next week.

PSA Mesa xjet envoy were all waiting for approval a few weeks ago.

Ummm. This is completely false. Read the reg before spouting bs.

Not after the new rules come into effect in August. The days of studying the book and taking the ATP written are over. Also the days of going someplace and getting your ATP in a Seminole are over. You have to have attend an approved ground course to take the ATP written AND you have to go someplace with an approved simulator for the ATP flight portion. Which means either you go to an airline to get it or a company pays for you to go to FlightSafety.

Ummm...what is BS? Maybe you need to read the new reg

You only need a degree to meet the restricted time requirements. If you have 1500 hours and meet the other time requirements, there is no requirement for a degree or military time. You may want to go read the reg again.

"Now to get hired under the new ATP rules, you MUST have an Professional Pilot Degree or be a graduate of a military flying program"

You don't need a degree or to be in the military to get hired. You just have to attend the course that the airlines will have no choice but to offer if they want to attract pilots.

I wouldn't leave the military to fly for a regional. I wouldn't spend the money on a degree either. I bet its way cheaper to just get the full atp mins.

This.

And the sim time is only required to take the written. The flight can still be done in a Seminole if you so choose.

I completely agree. I would much rather have a degree that's worth something and spend the extra 9 months to a year to meet the ATP requirements with no restrictions.

Yeah but if the airlines just shelled out 20k for the course and plan to spend another 100k to get you typed in their airplane i dont think they will want you to use a seminole. Nor will a corporate flight department that just spent big bucks to get you your atp. atps are not going to be a dime a dozen after this rule is in full effect.

That is what I said. To get the restricted ATP you have to be a graduate of one of these programs.

The question is how to get to the 1500 TT. Right now regional airlines are partnering up with flight schools and 135 programs to get these Pro Pilot graduates into jobs that will get them to the minimums for the Restricted ATP. People who aren't part of these pipelines are going to be aced out and will find it difficult to build the time.

Plus a lot of these smaller flight schools are closing because of a lack of students as mentioned earlier. Flying has gotten so expensive it is becoming something only the wealthy can afford. So building that 1500 hours you're talking about is a lot harder than it used to be unless you are instructing in a high volume school with a lot of students, most of which are going to be part of a network with regional airlines that will be hiring pro pilot graduates to build time towards the minimum for the restricted ATP.

Not saying it would be the norm, just clarifying that the sim was not required for the practical.

In order to get hired under the Restricted ATP, you have to have a Pro Pilot Degree OR be a graduate of an Approved Military Program

I am not a cfi or military and i havn't spent a penny on aviation building my time.

if you went military you probably dont have money. and you are paying your dues with time in the service. if you can afford a pilot degree for 200 freaking k or however much it is. its stupid how much cheaper it is to just get the 1500 hours instead

How much of that new ATP sim stuff can be incorporated into the regionals' normal new-hire sim sessions? I wonder if it can all be integrated with very little extra classroom/simulator time, or if it's going to break the bank at the regionals.

I was discussing the restricted reg requirements. You might want to read it again, because there are increased requirements for instrument time and cross country time if you don't have the Pro Pilot degree. They have made getting the ATP more difficult for those without the Pro Pilot Degree.

What part of you are required to fly 6 hours in a full motion FTD that simulates a turbine aircraft did you miss? Plus you have to have another 4 hours in either an FTD or GFS?

Doesn't matter that is required for the written or practical, you still have to have the sim time. So you can no longer just study a book, take the written and head to the FBO to fly the Seminole. Those days are over.

The training programs are being rewritten to include this now, and it is going to be a pain in the neck but everyone will have to deal with it.

40kmtow or more. so almost all regionals

hopefully this will raise pay and make airline pilots more valuable.

First it is going to be much harder to build that 1500 in the future than it used to be. A lot of those time building jobs have been slowly going away, and regional airlines are working on agreements with 135 carriers and flight schools to send Pro Pilot graduates to these companies to build time.

Hopefully but we'll see. All this is why you see Rev Bedford and his ilk having a meltdown over these new regs. It makes it much more difficult to get into this profession, and makes an ATP very valuable.

Then you should have been more clear. You specifically said you needed a pro pilot degree or military time to get hired.

The cross country and instrument requirements have not changed in years for the unrestricted atp.

You do not need a college degree to get a restricted atp. If you are under 23 or don't have the cross country time, you can get a restricted atp with 1500tt. The college degree or military time only affects the total time requirement.

Anything else?

Again you are arguing semantics. I simply said the checkride did not have to be done in the sim.

The CTP has nothing to do with the checkride. It is a hoop to jump through to take the written.

By the way, ATP is already advertising the CTP for 5k. Not that I advocate for dumping any more money to this profession, just pointing out that plenty will go this route. Checkride still done in a Seminole.

I am of the opinion that the regionals will soon drop the requirement for the written and provide the CTP as part of new hire training.

:eek: I'm still in shock man. Who in their right mind would even consider an aviation degree and than go become a pilot. Heck, for that kind of money I'd think you could nearly become a doctor. What a crying shame. Next time I hear a pilot say he has a Riddle degree, I'm gonna buy the guys coffee for him and than slap him in the back of the head.:eek:

Flight instructing is still a great and time honored way to build the time. It's how it used to be done. There was a time when 250 hour pilots just were not hired at regional airlines, not all that long ago. In the 90's, regional pilots were coming in with ATPs.

The smart pilot is going to go to college and get an unrelated degree, something with teeth in the real world. Further, this pilot will get most of their certificates and ratings part 61 at the local FBO. The FBO this pilot purchases their ratings from will also likely be the same place that gives the pilot their first job as flight instructor. This is a time honored way of doing this, I don't see where any change needs to occur at all here.

The pilot will need the extra 500 hours or whatever, but in trade he will not have to live with the extreme debt that comes from a program like ERAU.

As far as the ATP written and ATP are concerned, the airlines will supply both with very minor tweaks to their training program.

How Regional Airlines might deal with new ATP written requirements | Airline Pilot Info

As pointed out, ATP/Higher Power say their program will cost $4999 and they're making a profit on that figure. And if you think an airline spends 100k training a new hire you need to come down to earth.

That's kind of what I was getting at. Remember that's just for a CHANCE at someday getting that Captain seat.

Flying Daddy's airplane is very cost effective.

Which is just another example of why C.O. has no clue about the pilot PROFESSION.

I could have become a doctor too if it wasn't for that science thing...:D

Or the grades thing. Or the testing (GRE/MEDCAT) thing. Or the carving up cadavers thing.

:eek:

Or the residency thing. Older brother who is an MD had a few 48-hour and many 24-hour stretches without sleep during his four-year residency. And his kid would point at the hospital and say "That's where Daddy lives!"

I wonder if this has anything to do with the FAA change of heart:

Boeing Announces Ab Initio Pilot Training - AVweb flash Article

Conveniently missing is who is going to pay for the $100,000-150,000 program.