Originally Posted by flyguy23 (Post 1691794)

It is. They are going to spend a ton of money merging the 145s into shuttle just to park them months later. Makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by flyguy23 (Post 1691794)

It is. They are going to spend a ton of money merging the 145s into shuttle just to park them months later. Makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by FlyingKat (Post 1692087)

Yeah but it will save them a ton of money by merging operations and eliminating the duplication required in multiple certificate operations.

Originally Posted by Loon (Post 1692222)

Shhhhhh. Don't try and make sense to these mama's basement living fools; they don't digest that very well. Mommy never disagreed with them and neither should you. They deserve everything that the world has to offer, don't ya know ?!?!!

Originally Posted by sqwkvfr (Post 1692243)

So, it's not OK for others to make fun of those with which they disagree, but it's fine for you?

Hypocrite much?

Originally Posted by Loon (Post 1692255)

I only defend myself. To quote one Rambo, John J: "They drew first blood, not me!"

Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1692288)

The only sense that moving the 145 flying to Shuttle is that they must be planning to re-fleet the 145's with something new once they make it over there. Can't think of any other thing that makes good business sense.

Originally Posted by sqwkvfr (Post 1692294)

I'm betting that Shuttle will be an all Delta certificate, as well.

Originally Posted by MrMustache (Post 1692303)

Quote:





Originally Posted by sqwkvfr


I'm betting that Shuttle will be an all Delta certificate, as well.




How? Scope is maxed out.

Originally Posted by sqwkvfr (Post 1692392)

How's that relevant? Delta won't be getting more aircraft.

Originally Posted by MrMustache (Post 1692394)

Quote:





Originally Posted by sqwkvfr


How's that relevant? Delta won't be getting more aircraft.




Are you just saying the shuttle cert will end up with only the current Delta 170s and 145s?

Originally Posted by sqwkvfr (Post 1692404)

That is exactly the rumor.

Originally Posted by sqwkvfr (Post 1692404)

That is exactly the rumor.

Originally Posted by tunes (Post 1692416)

Quote:





Originally Posted by sqwkvfr


That is exactly the rumor.




so Compass just disappears?

Originally Posted by sqwkvfr (Post 1692422)

Haha!! Yes, yes it does! :)

Originally Posted by MrMustache (Post 1692426)

Quote:





Originally Posted by sqwkvfr


Haha!! Yes, yes it does!




Wait I was talking only shuttles airplanes. Now you're saying Compass airplanes too? Doubtful

Originally Posted by sqwkvfr (Post 1692294)

I'm betting that Shuttle will be an all Delta certificate, as well.

Originally Posted by FlyingKat (Post 1692453)

Doubtful unless the CPAs with Airways/American and United have changed. When I worked at Republic I remember Bedford saying many times that we could not get Delta or United flying because their scope applies to all aircraft on that certificate, not just the flying you do for them. Airways scope only applies for the aircraft flying for Airways, not anybody else. IE you could theoretically put a 747 on the Republic certificate as long as it wasn't flown for Airways. That is why the 190s went on the RP certificate. Also the 86 seat 175s for Airways violated Delta and United scope. Used to be 76 seats, not sure what it is now.

Now that was about 5 years ago and things change, particularly since the mergers. Heard those 175s are no longer at 86 seats, not sure what they are now.

Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky (Post 1692482)

The Airways 175s are at 80 seats but I believe the United flying going to YX is a solid rumor based at what BB has hinted at. We already know United's scope isn't the problem as the Q's are on the YX cert.

Originally Posted by FlyingKat (Post 1692453)

Quote:





Originally Posted by sqwkvfr


I'm betting that Shuttle will be an all Delta certificate, as well.




Doubtful unless the CPAs with Airways/American and United have changed. When I worked at Republic I remember Bedford saying many times that we could not get Delta or United flying because their scope applies to all aircraft on that certificate, not just the flying you do for them. Airways scope only applies for the aircraft flying for Airways, not anybody else. IE you could theoretically put a 747 on the Republic certificate as long as it wasn't flown for Airways. That is why the 190s went on the RP certificate. Also the 86 seat 175s for Airways violated Delta and United scope. Used to be 76 seats, not sure what it is now.

Now that was about 5 years ago and things change, particularly since the mergers. Heard those 175s are no longer at 86 seats, not sure what they are now.

Originally Posted by sqwkvfr (Post 1692267)

Actually, I think that first blood was drawn when you fell out of a tree and landed on your head when you were a child.

Originally Posted by CptGSXR (Post 1692498)

Whole thing smells fishy. There is NO way this saves them any $$ unless there is something they are hiding. Here is why:

Cost MORE to add a new AC Type to a cert, manuals and training and FFA approval. Think about it, NEW manuals cost more than updating older ones. If the 145s are truly to be parked in 24 months then this does NOT save money. You still need to move 'most' of the admin costs to the larger cert because you have more resources to manage.

And for those wondering about an All Delta cert: Remember that S5 and RP 145s do NOT count toward Delta scope. If they could staff 500 planes they would still not breach any scope. And take a look at basing now, not much to consolidate when you consider places like IND and CMH already had 3 certs based there with shared crew rooms and M/X facilities.

Something doesn't add up.....

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1692488)

Are you certain about that? I believe UAL pilot's scope for jets is more restrictive than for t-props. If the seat count on the jets go down then maybe it could work. I think AA, UAL, & DAL are all at 76 seats jet max now.

Originally Posted by CptGSXR (Post 1692498)

Whole thing smells fishy. There is NO way this saves them any $$ unless there is something they are hiding. Here is why:

Cost MORE to add a new AC Type to a cert, manuals and training and FFA approval. Think about it, NEW manuals cost more than updating older ones. If the 145s are truly to be parked in 24 months then this does NOT save money. You still need to move 'most' of the admin costs to the larger cert because you have more resources to manage.

Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky (Post 1692540)

It does save a lot of money initially as they no longer have to pay double for a bunch of VPs

Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky (Post 1692540)

They are restricted for seat count as far as the a/c flying for them but not the seat limit for other a/c on the same cert flying for someone else. That is the problem with DAL's scope as it limits the size of all a/c on the same cert regardless of who they fly for.



It does save a lot of money initially as they no longer have to pay double for a bunch of VPs, middle management, SOC and other support staff. Also, believe it or not, we are also having a problem staffing FAs. Its no longer worth it to be an FA with our crappy outstations, low pay, horrible benefits, and abysmal travel benefits (the main reason most become FAs). So they are then able to have all the FAs dual qualified and use them on both the 145s and 170s which means fewer FAs will be required. They already have closed quite a few of the RP bases and will likely only be in LGA by the time the merger occurs. I believe the FAs already have a provision in their new contract for co-basing too.

All the pilots have just been issued company Ipads so by the time the merger happens, they won't have to print off new manuals. They will just update a couple PDFs and issue some new badges.

According to BBs roadshow, Delta wants all the DCI carriers to all wear the same uniform so that adds up to another small cost as they won't have to supply two sets of uniforms for the rest of the people on the cert.

This cert merger is all about removing redundant costs which will same a ton of money in the end. BB has already stated that we will be going down to just the 170's and the Q's. Once the Airways birds are at 76 seats or less with the 190's gone, I have no doubt Shuttle will be gone as well. He can probably sell of the RP cert for a decent profit as well because it already has Saabs, 145's, CRJ's, and 170's on it.

Originally Posted by flyguy23 (Post 1692575)

They will have to print new manuals. The ipad requires a 6 month trial that has not begun. It probably wont begin for quite a while either. The merger is to be complete in close to 5 months from now. They are going to waste a ton of money on manuals that we will throw away just a few months later.

Originally Posted by CptGSXR (Post 1692705)

6 month for IPADs hasn't begun yet, in fact it will be months before it even starts. And while I'm sure this could change, I was told RP got it's IPADs first and S5/YX hasn't gotten theirs. Meaning it will be even LONGER till they get their 6 month period. So ya, wasted manuals, not a game breaker but seems a bit sketchy to me.

Originally Posted by SUX4U (Post 1692716)

Incorrect. I am YX and just got mine last week as did many others in my base. I dont imagine this place getting the 6 month trial going for at least another month or two.