Affecting change
 

Want to really get attention and affect some change. Every pilot with more than a year senority and less than seven, should walk in to their CP's office the day before their Oct. bid closes, and turn in their two weeks notice. Anything less than that would be weatherable. Think about it. You left on good terms and are therefore eligible for rehire. You leave a job fully qualified to fill the IMMEDIATE industry wide vacancies (change of domicile possible!), and worst case scenario is you have to replace a $40k a year job. Best case.... mainline starts moving some of that money they are saving from all those expensive guys retiring, and pays retention and improves existing contracts for everyone....

Just a thought.

Who's your dealer?? Must sell some good stuff... :)

....sssssssssssoooooo you gonna be paying mah bills in the meantime there good sir?

No. But how long do you think it would be before everyone that wanted work was (at least) back in new hire ground school.. and NEW new hire pay/signing bonuses covered any money lost between the last OLD company paychecks and the first NEW company paycheck?

Is this a business management class experiment? Make the employees think they are doing a great thing all while reducing costs by having everyone back on first year pay?

No one should come back if first year pay isn't improved by side letters and MOU's. What if first year pay looked like year 8 pay does today?

Here is a noble idea; how about we don't vote any subpar, concessionary contacts in! That will affect change. Stand our ground, stop the whipsaw we and only we control this.

From the ALPA website : " As the world’s largest pilots’ union, ALPA has advanced the piloting profession since 1931. "

Its been tried.

Really? What did PSA do?, what does PDT have the chance to do? Start thinking realistically.

This is circular.. not entertaining it anymore

Nah...That would actually require these unhappy people to put their money where their mouth is. Much easier to just get on FB and beotch about it.....

Ok.. I laughed.. and there is validity here. But in reality, the system was NEVER meant to sustain an 8 year stagnation.. the rules have changed, and the eternal F/O's do have SOME validity to their whining.

That's true. However it is also a problem that likely won't happen again. It was a combination of events that created this "perfect storm". They could do as you said, and that would change things. Instead they will just whine about it, and it won't change. Besides, they are too busy now chasing quick upgrades at Mesa, Compass, GoJets, and PSA.....

The perfect storm was 6 years ago. Much like it is now until economy tanked and retirement age was raised to 65. One of them we didn't really have control over. There's nothing wrong with using regionals as stepping stone to get in and get out. That was what regionals were meant for. Unfortunately for many of this, this stepping stone turned into sinking sand. Meanwhile many of us are fighting for major/lcc like contract at a regional. That's like the doctors interning wanting to stay at their residency and demanding higher pay and QOL. It's definitely an uphill battle especially when the regionals will most likely disappear in the next ten years due to lack of pilots.

You're attempting to re-explain all this... I'm offering a suggestion to improve.. different subjects.

The solution is to support and encourage PDT pilots to hold the line started by XJET,
Envoy, and RAH in turning down subpar contracts.

Why more than a year? What's to lose at less than a year given two weeks notice. Can go to another regional without a problem or just explain to the next non-aviation employer that $500 bucks a week barely pays my electricity bill in TX in August, let alone my mortgage.

Less than a year would likely leave you ineligible for re-hire.. thats the only reason for the exclusion.

Joe doesn't have to worry about it because he is in the left seat and has been for a long time, right Joe. Would you turn your 4 weeks for the improvement of the industry?

Trust me, given the dismal conditions of being on reserve flying 11 hrs a month and commuting to JFK from DFW the last thing I'd want to do is get rehired here upon resigning. On the other hand, several other regionals were trying to poach my classmates during training so I'm sure resigning with less than a year would not impact hiring at another regional. I guess I'm not seeing your thesis- resigning and getting hired again by your current employer?

If they actually raised pay and benefits for a change, they probably wouldn't disappear "due to lack of pilots".

Somewhere around the 8/10 year mark, the loss of income/QOL would start to actually be a sacrifice.. that's why I limited it to 8 years.. go fight somewhere else.

HE gets it.

I know this idea is well intentioned but it has to be one of the most poorly thought out things I've heard on here in a long time.

Let's assume you are able to get this organized or not even organized, but enough people do it. Let's be honest, enough people are going to have to do it for this to have enough effect to a) have mainline take back flying or b) have regionals offer better benefits. By the way, a regional isn't really even capable of offering significantly better compensation without taking it from somewhere else. Their current contracts were bid with certain labor costs already accounted for. If you think, out of the blue, regionals are going to be able to just start offering 7 year pay during year 1, you're completely dellusional to the economic reality of the situation.

Scenario 1: Everyone quits. Flights are canceled and mainline picks up a big chunk of flying. Then you go to interview: "excuse me sir, might I ask why you quit X regional airline 2 years ago along with hundreds of your peers?" How do you answer that question? Even if you have a creative answer, you are going to be less likely to be hired at the now expanding majors because you have cost your "future" employer a LOT of money. Why should they believe you aren't going to do something like that again? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you quit during the "great regional exodus." They don't have to tell you why you weren't hired.

Scenario 2: You quit and regionals significantly increase compensation and bonuses to new hires. Many of those regionals are going to go bankrupt and you have just screwed over everyone year 8 and above. Those that survive? Why should they rehire you? You, legally in poor faith, caused them to lose MILLIONS of dollars. I know if I was a regional manager, I wouldn't hire you back. I know your argument is that the companies aren't currently acting in good faith. If that were true, a federal mediator would be able to determine that and the pilot group would be permitted to strike. At this point, it hasn't been determined that this is, in fact, the case (legally).

So, let's say you jump ship and things DON'T change. Now what? What do I do now? I haven't been making enough over the last x years to have any significant savings accumulation. I might have student loans or a family to think of. Where are 1000 ex-pilots going to find work? The economy isn't that healthy that you can just go find a decent job somewhere at the drop of a hat. Many people have given up the left seat (many regionals are well within 5 years for upgrade) for this harebrained idea and are now competing with would-be fresh ATPs for a chance to be at the bottom of the totem again.

Im not sure you understand supply and demand. Or just exactly how many pilots there are stuck at less than 50k/yr.

I'm well versed. I'm not sure you understand economics. You know there is a LITTLE more to economics than Supply vs demand, right? If Skywest or Envoy had to choose between paying you more or canceling a flight, what do you think they are going to do? Certainly, in your "reality," it's pay you more. What part of "with current contracts," do you not understand. It's not like a regional is just going to be able to say, "oh, hey, our labor is gone. Can you give us more money so we don't go bankrupt?" The mainline partners are going to shrug their shoulders and tell them that maybe they shouldn't have bid so low. They are going to charge them penalties for poor on-time and completion performance, yes charge the regionals money and accelerate the run to bankruptcy.

So where exactly do you fit in?

Im not under the delusion that this is likely

If 3000 regional jet pilots quit and conditions warranted mainline expansion, they could put a 73 or a MD-8 on that route and cut the required number of pilots to 1500. How much do you think it would cost them to buy a bankrupt pilot group with years 8-25 years of experience?

I THINK that what you are saying is that deleting the 30 percent savings that regional airlines provide would invintinize the majors to purchase the regional airlines to secure a supply of pilots. Im all for it.

Answer the question Jefferson?

OK, so this is where I say either less than one or more than 8 and you say "so you're putting up a plan that doesn't effect you" and I defend it... Lets skip a step.

If I'm under 1, moot, I'm still bidding at the bottom earning nothing. If I'm 8-15ish then I'm back in the right seat with the displacement... a loss of roughly the same number of $/year as just quitting... and if I'm over 15 then Christmas off is gone and I'm back working weekends... Any but the top 5% are going to be affected by the displacement bid to follow.

Besides, where I fit in exactly is moot.. What I'm offering is a real, viable response to the situation, in contrast to this temper tantrum.... Regional Pilot Sickout ? Sept 1st to 5th 2014 | ?Those who stand for nothing fall for anything? ? Alexander Hamilton

Sooooo, you are weak to lead by example i get it!

You are assuming you know where I fall in the matrix... and what path I would take regardless.

Besides, when you voted Obama into office (either time) did you expect him to pick up a rifle and head off into dirka dirkastan?

I didn't vote for Obama, but nice try. So i don't know you so why don't you yell us your position; Who do you work for and what seat?

I got a real solution for war. Let the country/religious leaders step into the octagon and duke it out. Everyone else in the military or militia or militant needs to quit right now! I think my solution serves far greater purpose and actually saves lives.

Love this idea... but lets call it the Octagon...

So you are comparing your leadership skills with Obama? I think you should shoot a little higher next time.

So please tell us where you fall in the matrix?

Which is it, is a regional a place to make a career or is it an up and out only place? The answer to this question determines what happens to you as an FO. My guess is there is no Captains complaining right now, only FO's.

If you are an FO, you want to upgrade to Captain as soon as possible, but that's out of your control and in some cases you are sitting in that right seat for 8 years making $30,000 a year.

If you are a regional Captain, you no longer really care about FO's. Now you want the choice of sitting Captain at the regional forever or moving on to mainline when its your turn. You have options that FO's don't have.

Even if your regional airline had the best intentions towards its pilots, they don't get to set the ticket prices, they are constrained by the pot of money given to them. And your airline management doesn't even decide how its divided up, the pilots do. And the pilots have spoken. They've said FO's are going to starve and Captains are going to do better at their expense.

So who are you really ****ed at?

You talked about affecting change. You want to make some waves? Get a group of FO's running your union council. Vote to completely flatten the payscales where FO's and Captains make the same money where only years of service pays higher. How would that be? Would you vote for that?

Be honest, who would vote for that?

The ONLY other way is to get a bigger pot of money from the parent airline, but be careful because if you ask for too much, other airlines who shall remain nameless will fly right in under the radar and underbid you because they can afford to with newly found concession money. Employees at these types of airlines suffer from SJS.

Do yourself a favor and make sure pilots at your airline hold the line so everything Envoy, Republic, Silver and more have done isn't for nothing.

Flattening the pay scales is probably the most meaningful thing a regional could do in the interest of longevity and self preservation. New FO's will flock there to make $35k or more a year starting, and nobody will stick around as a Captain keeping the "lifer cost" down.

No current regional would vote this in, but a prudent executive might try this if there's another start-up.