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-   -   They don't need us like we think they do (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/83750-they-dont-need-us-like-we-think-they-do.html)

kfahmi 09-08-2014 11:25 AM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1722633)
Ron Paul had an interesting suggestion in that Congress could just pass a law wiping the debt free.

I wonder if Mr. Paul realizes that, if this were to happen:

1. Many millions of Americans would see their retirements vanish. It's not like our debt is simply to 'the Chinese.' T-bills, savings bonds...all owned by good ol' 'Muricans that Mr. Paul claims to represent, would suddenly be worthless.

2. Our credit rating would plunge to that of Rwanda's. We'd essentially not be able to borrow any money for the foreseeable future, resulting in a massive economic collapse in this country, which in turn would plunge the world into a depression that would make the Great Depression seem like a cakewalk.

It truly amazes me that people possessed of so few brain cells can be elected to an office such as Mr. Paul's.

CGfalconHerc 09-08-2014 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by Nantonaku (Post 1722637)
I'm not an aviation historian but my understanding of the whole RJ deal was 1.) mainline pilots thought they were too good to be flying small jets around and 2.) if there was any selling of scope, Twisted Mind might be wrong by telling you personally that you sold it but was there not a contingent of pilots above you that essentially "sold" this for their own benefit? Point 1 still stands today, if it didn't you would have any extra 4000 pilots below you on your seniority list flying RJs providing you with more job security. If your pilot group wanted this to happen in the next contract there is no reason why they couldn't make it a reality.

I don't know what senior guys thought. DL had already bought CMR and RJ's were already flying when I got hired in 99.

I can only say that none of my fellow 1310 DL furloughees thought they were too good to fly small RJ's painted in DL colors flying DL passengers. The CMR MEC refused to let us sit in the right seat unless we resigned our DL seniority number and DL agreed to drop all scope limitations and merge the airlines with DOH SLI. The RJDC sued to keep DL furloughees on the street longer while CMR hired 60/month. CMR captains refused the jumpseat and MEL'd the last open passenger seat if a DL commuter tried to non-rev to work. That's what I remember.

I've decided to move on and try to help pilots get to mainline, regardless of history, because that is what I wished the CMR pilots had done. Hopefully, those same pilots will let go of their "mainline pilots sold scope for cash" and "thought they were too good to fly small airplanes" narrative before they come to interview...you never know what the interviewer's personal history is.

Nantonaku 09-08-2014 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by CGfalconHerc (Post 1722670)
I don't know what senior guys thought. DL had already bought CMR and RJ's were already flying when I got hired in 99.

I can only say that none of my fellow 1310 DL furloughees thought they were too good to fly small RJ's painted in DL colors flying DL passengers. The CMR MEC refused to let us sit in the right seat unless DL agreed to drop all scope limitations and merge the airlines with DOH SLI. The RJDC sued to keep DL furloughees on the street longer while CMR hired 60/month. CMR captains refused the jumpseat and MEL'd a passenger seat if a DL commuter tried to non-rev to work. That's what I remember.

I've decided to move on and try to help pilots get to mainline, regardless of history. Hopefully, those same pilots will let go of their "mainline pilots sold scope for cash" and were too "good" to fly small airplanes narrative before they come to interview...IMHO.

Judging by most of the Comair guys I saw walking around their last year of operation (the pilots that refused to welcome Delta furloughed pilots), I doubt too many of them are applying at mainline. Their average age had to of been over 60. Also, as an ALPA member you know how decisions are made at the MEC level, without any input from the line pilot.

Mesabah 09-08-2014 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by Nantonaku (Post 1722637)
I'm not an aviation historian but my understanding of the whole RJ deal was 1.) mainline pilots thought they were too good to be flying small jets around and 2.) if there was any selling of scope, Twisted Mind might be wrong by telling you personally that you sold it but was there not a contingent of pilots above you that essentially "sold" this for their own benefit? Point 1 still stands today, if it didn't you would have any extra 4000 pilots below you on your seniority list flying RJs providing you with more job security. If your pilot group wanted this to happen in the next contract there is no reason why they couldn't make it a reality.

The RJ's were already coming, what was sold was the ability to paint the aircraft in Delta colors. DALPA didn't really have a scope contract, so they allowed a certain number of RJ's to act like Delta in exchange for tighter restrictions on the larger jets. The first RJ's were sold for scope, the C2K RJ's were sold for money.

Nantonaku 09-08-2014 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by kfahmi (Post 1722661)
I wonder if Mr. Paul realizes that, if this were to happen:

1. Many millions of Americans would see their retirements vanish. It's not like our debt is simply to 'the Chinese.' T-bills, savings bonds...all owned by good ol' 'Muricans that Mr. Paul claims to represent, would suddenly be worthless.

2. Our credit rating would plunge to that of Rwanda's. We'd essentially not be able to borrow any money for the foreseeable future, resulting in a massive economic collapse in this country, which in turn would plunge the world into a depression that would make the Great Depression seem like a cakewalk.

It truly amazes me that people possessed of so few brain cells can be elected to an office such as Mr. Paul's.

Look at the value of a dollar in 1914 vs. 2014, the government has/is devaluing your retirement everyday. Ron Paul's main stance on the dollar is it should be backed by something of value, thereby limiting the governments ability to steal your wealth. Also, Ron Paul doesn't represent any Americans nor is he in any office, he is retired.

calvenaut 09-08-2014 12:52 PM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 1722631)
That's a great first post! We'll weight it accordingly. :D Welcome to Airline Pilot Central.

Thanks, looking forward to posting more and lurking less.

Twisted mind 09-08-2014 01:17 PM

CG,

What I am trying to tell you is you need to go to the VA and request a therapist.

1. You blame evey one else for your mistakes.
2. You have an unbelievable sense of entitlement.

CGfalconHerc 09-09-2014 06:46 AM


Originally Posted by Twisted mind (Post 1722723)
CG,

What I am trying to tell you is you need to go to the VA and request a therapist.

1. You blame evey one else for your mistakes.
2. You have an unbelievable sense of entitlement.

Thanks for the tip, Skippy...you really do care!

The best therapy I could ask for is knowing that;

1. The few individuals that I do blame got what was coming to them when CMR shut down 2 yrs ago.

2. Our 2012 contract tightened scope and we're fixing our mistake by bringing flying back to mainline.

3. Good guys will be getting hired and finally getting their shot at a descent QOL and mainline pay after so many years on the RJ.

4. There's no straight flow, so hopefully it won't be you.

But you're right, 15 yrs in the right seat has given me a sense of entitlement, especially when I watch other pilots dress up in DL uniforms and fly DL pax in shiny little jets. I know it's not their fault, they're just trying to feed their family and build time to move up the ladder. I'm sure my therapist will tell me to just close my eyes and remember #1.

While I'm there, I'll make an appointment for you so you can work on your habit of blaming mainline pilots for "selling" scope to ease your guilty conscience. Remember, if you had done the right thing, you'd be sitting in the right seat of a DL ER headed across the pond and there wouldn't be the bad blood between DL mainline and RJ guys.

I think you're gonna need more than a few sessions to work it out.

Brand X 09-09-2014 07:29 AM


Originally Posted by Nantonaku (Post 1722637)
I'm not an aviation historian but my understanding of the whole RJ deal was 1.) mainline pilots thought they were too good to be flying small jets around and 2.) if there was any selling of scope, Twisted Mind might be wrong by telling you personally that you sold it but was there not a contingent of pilots above you that essentially "sold" this for their own benefit? Point 1 still stands today, if it didn't you would have any extra 4000 pilots below you on your seniority list flying RJs providing you with more job security. If your pilot group wanted this to happen in the next contract there is no reason why they couldn't make it a reality.

That was mainly AA pilots who said that the country would be littered with Eagle lawn darts (RJs) if Eagle turboprop pilots were allowed to fly jets.

Brand X 09-09-2014 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by CGfalconHerc (Post 1722670)
I don't know what senior guys thought. DL had already bought CMR and RJ's were already flying when I got hired in 99.

I can only say that none of my fellow 1310 DL furloughees thought they were too good to fly small RJ's painted in DL colors flying DL passengers. The CMR MEC refused to let us sit in the right seat unless we resigned our DL seniority number and DL agreed to drop all scope limitations and merge the airlines with DOH SLI. The RJDC sued to keep DL furloughees on the street longer while CMR hired 60/month. CMR captains refused the jumpseat and MEL'd the last open passenger seat if a DL commuter tried to non-rev to work. That's what I remember.

I've decided to move on and try to help pilots get to mainline, regardless of history, because that is what I wished the CMR pilots had done. Hopefully, those same pilots will let go of their "mainline pilots sold scope for cash" and "thought they were too good to fly small airplanes" narrative before they come to interview...you never know what the interviewer's personal history is.


Sounds reasonable..... what's the problem?


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