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-   -   The Regional Poverty Churn (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/84035-regional-poverty-churn.html)

CBreezy 09-19-2014 09:58 AM


Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 1730481)
It took a hell of a lot more than things like internet posts and rants to change how businesses treated workers during the industrial revolution. It's going to take a hell of a lot more during the outsourcing revolution.

Agreed. Did you know that unionization has dropped from 33% of all labor during the 70s to less than 10% today? I think it's around 6% today.

Unfortunately, labor will always lose to the bottom dollar and until the middle class realizes this, things will continue to get worse until they are nearly unrecoverable.

klondike 09-19-2014 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by Three Green (Post 1730422)
I got out of the regionals and make descent money teaching corporate guys at one of the big three flight training centers. I wake up in my own bed everyday an i do not miss the lifestyle and headache one bit. BTW I am a proud progressive living in the two Americas.

You'll get sick of that teaching crap pretty quickly my friend. I got [deleted] off at the regional I worked for and quit to do the same thing you did. Now I regret it.

Enjoy the corporate greed at your new gig. It's no different.

As for being a proud progressive- Congratulations.

skypilot35 09-19-2014 10:36 AM

One seniority list.

The Juice 09-19-2014 10:45 AM


One seniority list.
Never going to happen. Such a move would need to be spearheaded my Legacy carrier pilots. Can you imagine what it would take for a major pilot to sign off on the idea of having a lifelong regional pilot jump them on their own seniority list?

ShyGuy 09-19-2014 11:01 AM

One longevity list. Bottom of the list for bidding schedules and vacation, but longevity for pay. Get paid for the experience you bring. Since people like to compare pilots to doctors, the AMA spells out the strict requirements of newhire Doctors that companies must hire. Make it the same. Companies can only go so long by hiring bottom barrel for experience before they are forced to hire guys throughout the experience spectrum. This pill would have been easiest to swallow for the legacies in 2010-2013 when virtually every pilot was topped at the 12 yr scale anyway.

But alas it'll never happen.

skypilot35 09-19-2014 11:01 AM

Agreed. I should have stipulated one seniority list for us regional guys/gals.

The Juice 09-19-2014 11:24 AM


Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1730522)
Since pilots like to compare pilots to doctors,

But alas it'll never happen.

Fixed it for ya

Std Deviation 09-19-2014 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by klondike (Post 1730489)
You'll get sick of that teaching crap pretty quickly my friend. I got [deleted] off at the regional I worked for and quit to do the same thing you did. Now I regret it.

Enjoy the corporate greed at your new gig. It's no different.

As for being a proud progressive- Congratulations.

Agree. And if that "one of the big three" is FSI, you're a pawn. My position as a PM was eliminated and I was sent to teach classes no one really wanted. Center manager can change your life on a whim. I was there six years and recently left for a regional to become current again. Could not see another 25 years of 12 hour days (8 in ground school and 4 in the sim) seven days a week. Meanwhile, my corporate contacts (most recently a Fortune 10 company) have contacted me personally to provide them with onsite training, which I conduct at reasonable - not exorbitant - prices. Nice as a regional salary subsidy.

TrinityDawn 09-19-2014 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by Three Green (Post 1730422)
You guys are sounding like progressives. Most everyone I met in my time in the regionals were die hard conservatives where the market place dictated wages ,

The major airlines haven't had to deal with market forces impacting pilot wages in any real way, and that's due to the non-portability of our labor due to the union seniority system. In most other skilled professions, one can switch companies and be compensated based on experience. Thus, the major airlines haven't been forced to adjust wages to keep around their best and most experienced pilots. Pilots at the regionals have been hamstrung from leaving for better employers due to being forced to start over at first year pay. Market forces have not been in play to eliminate failing businesses that treat their employees poorly. Couple that with antiquated bankruptcy and union laws, and the airlines haven't had to deal with true market forces in a long time.


...entrepreneurs like Bedford took the risk in starting the business therefore they should get the reward. you know like in Atlas Shrugged. Quit the whinning, nothing is gonna change you are all pawns in a career you freely chose.
You CLEARLY haven't read Atlas Shrugged, or if you have you didn't comprehend it. One of Ayn Rand's primary philosophies was that NO ONE should work for free, be a slave to any other man, and should be compensated fairly for their labor. In the book, the protagonist Dagny Taggert does everything in her power to REWARD her best employees, treat them well, and promote them. The airlines, and corporate America as a whole, have forgotten that the employees ARE the company.

If you're going to malign something, I suggest you know what the hell you're talking about first, rather then regurgitating some tired liberal propaganda that you were fed.

Brand X 09-19-2014 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by Chuck D (Post 1730439)
All valid points. It's too bad the flying public is ok with outsourced metal and that it's legal for 6+ different regionals to all fly "Delta" or "American" routes. Getting all of that flying back into the majors would be a step in the right direction.


The public doesn't care about the plight of the regional pilot, they just want a cheap ticket and not die in the process.

If the regional flying goes back to the majors, what are you going to do with all the regional pilots, seeing as more than a few are not qualified for a major and/or not major material?


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