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-   -   Who sets the altitude pre-selector? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/84597-who-sets-altitude-pre-selector.html)

BoilerUP 10-22-2014 03:24 AM


Originally Posted by gojo (Post 1751005)
Interesting theory, but how would that keep the PM more in the loop than a challenge/response?

Because the PM would have to 1. hear the altitude from ATC, 2. acknowledge the altitude from ATC, 3. set the altitude from ATC in the window and 4. receive confirmation from the PF that what was set corresponded with #1 & 2, as well as matched what the PF heard.

While I agree that both pilots are responsible for being aware of what is going on and listening to the radio, it further reduces the errors and confirmation bias that occurs in every two-crew cockpit (regardless of how sharp crewmembers are, or how standard procedures are), especially when task loading/workload is high...with a reduction in altitude deviations showing that the process is effective.

"Bumping hands" is the lesser of the two evils, don't you think?

That being said, I don't think "your way" is "wrong"...but it is different than the two 91 operations and two 121 operations I have worked at.

Justdoinmyjob 10-22-2014 03:31 AM

In the end, some companies do it one way, some do it the other way. Both ways have been shown to be acceptable to the FAA. Depending where you are, that's the way you do it, regardless of your personal preference. If and when you change employers, if they do it differently than what you are used to, you adapt or you move on.

All that said, at Delta the PM makes changes with the AP off, as directed by the PF. PF makes changes with the AP on, or can direct the PM to make changes during high work loads (below 10K.) If you come here, that's how you do it. Please don't tell us how you did it at your other airline and how it was so much better. Don't be "that" guy.

pagey 10-22-2014 03:33 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 1750721)
If I remember correctly(Not 100% sure) airways guys have the PM set the ALT. At least from the view of my jumpseat.

PF at Airways.

CBreezy 10-22-2014 03:36 AM


Originally Posted by pagey (Post 1751011)
PF at Airways.

Yeah. Must've been the UAL flight deck. I know one of the majors did it.

gojo 10-22-2014 04:10 AM


Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 1751009)
Because the PM would have to 1. hear the altitude from ATC, 2. acknowledge the altitude from ATC, 3. set the altitude from ATC in the window and 4. receive confirmation from the PF that what was set corresponded with #1 & 2, as well as matched what the PF heard.

While I agree that both pilots are responsible for being aware of what is going on and listening to the radio, it further reduces the errors and confirmation bias that occurs in every two-crew cockpit (regardless of how sharp crewmembers are, or how standard procedures are), especially when task loading/workload is high...with a reduction in altitude deviations showing that the process is effective.

"Bumping hands" is the lesser of the two evils, don't you think?

That being said, I don't think "your way" is "wrong"...but it is different than the two 91 operations and two 121 operations I have worked at.

Well pilot monitoring is just that. That includes listening to the radio and ensuring the pilot flying heard the same thing and that the correct altitude change is made. When task loading/workload is high (autopilot off) the pilot monitoring does all changes to the MCP. With task loading/workload reduced (autopilot on) it should just be controlled by the pilot flying. By using your logic changes between NAV/HDG/APP mode as well as heading changes should also be made by the pilot monitoring with autopilot engaged to keep the pilot monitoring in the loop and reduce course deviations. I have had to do it both ways and I feel one hand on any panel at a time is enough. The reduction in altitude deviations has more to do with challenge/response and breaking the error chain than who's doing it.

BoilerUP 10-22-2014 04:24 AM


Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 1751010)
In the end, some companies do it one way, some do it the other way. Both ways have been shown to be acceptable to the FAA. Depending where you are, that's the way you do it, regardless of your personal preference. If and when you change employers, if they do it differently than what you are used to, you adapt or you move on.

Thread's over folks, last one out turn off the lights...

aviatorhi 10-22-2014 08:37 AM

Can't believe someone wasted ink saying who touches what knob.

(Also: giggity)

Akbush 10-22-2014 11:28 AM

Whom ever does it....does it......some times the PM does it or the PF

BenS 10-22-2014 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by FaceBiter (Post 1750872)
I'm always the PF even when I'm not. Therefore, I set whatever I want, whenever I want.

Haha... Exactly... Why not always have the captain set it? It is, after all, always his plane... He merely loans the privilege of flying to the FO only when he desires to do so..

aviatorhi 10-22-2014 06:06 PM


Originally Posted by Akbush (Post 1751354)
Whom ever does it....does it......some times the PM does it or the PF

Common sense. We're all doomed!!!


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