PRIA Record
 

Hey guys,

I heard today that Part 141 Standardization flights may start being included in our PRIA reports as if they were a check ride bust. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about that for disclosure purposes?

What's a standardization flight? I went through a Pt141 program. Do you mean the end of course stage checks?

Standardization flights are the flight tests to be qualified to teach in a part 141 school. I have heard that End of Course stage checks could be added, in part due to the Colgan crash but whether or not that has happened or will happen I don't know.

I'm at a 141 school right now and have been told by many instructors that they are not included on PRIA. The details of the in house training records are kept for a few years after graduation but are private unless we agree to release them. Haven't heard that they may become part of the record either....would news to me!

Have you read the advisory circular?

Actually no, tried doing a search but didn't find anything... care to share?

No problem.

lol! Thanks, that's what I found as well but I get an error message that the page was not found.

1st link loads fine for me (in Chrome). Direct PDF link.

i'll try troubleshooting... thanks. So you've read it, are 141 stage checks reportable? I was told to disclose everything if asked because honesty is what an employer looks for. However, our FAA checkrides are separate from the stage check. We do not have in house testing.

PRIA is only a air carrier thing. Part 121/135 or 125. Not 141/61/91.

There's a few things going on there. If your checks are done by a designated examiner and an 8710 is prepared before the check and the result of the check either gives you a temporary certificate or pink slip, then it goes back to Oklahoma City and remains on your airman records. If failing the checkride nets you no pink slip and you have to do the check again on what you failed, then it's most likely a school where you get your certificate for completing the course, not for passing the checkride. At my 141 school, back in the day, the only thing ever sent to OKC was an 8710 showing that a person passed the course. To contrast, in part 61 your 8710 shows you passed an examination, rather than a course.

PRIA is not airman records. When a prospective employer runs PRIA, they are asking for your certificates, limitations, any past accidents and violations from OKC. This is printed on a one to two page sheet usually. This doesn't include checkrides, etc.

They also ask any 135/121 you've been employed by for your PRIA reportable records (training performance).

The prospective employer can use the Freedom of Information Act though (with your permission) to get all of your airman records from OKC. This is increasingly common, but not all the airlines do it. This would include all checkrides reported to OKC (see first paragraph).

Lastly, 141s are not required to keep PRIA records, but your prospective employer could make a PRIA request to them, and what they send back is somewhat up to them, but I doubt they will expose themselves to the liability by sending anything, but you do have the right to request to see what they "keep" for PRIA, at least you need to ask them what their policy is, and if they do keep anything for PRIA, ask for a copy of it. You should be able to get this.

Although I've read the AC several times, I would need to read it again to answer your questions with confidence and accuracy. You are a pilot and this affects your career. A little time spent reading it, perhaps a few times, is time well spent.

That's a very informative post. Yes, like you stated our checkride's are done by a DPE where we have an 8710 filled out. This is separate from our end of course stage checks where if you bust, you receive more training and attempt to pass on the next try. I actually learned a lot from what you just wrote and I appreciate it...trying to update my browser so I can read the AC. Cheers!

When I did my PRIA request it only had my FAA DPE check ride fails, however I found out today that my 141 Standardization fails would be on there too as they are a regulatory training event. It was always my understanding that only check rides done by a DPE were on the PRIA report. Supposedly though after the Colgan crash where the Captain was from a 141 school the FAA has been scrutinizing and pushing to get it placed on the PRIA. I haven't failed a check ride in 9 years but they are def a factor in my ability get hired at mainline :/

That sucks man, and I hope it's not true. I really don't think that failures from 9 years ago should have much weight given that you have proven yourself over that time with recurrent training. Good luck though

No. 141 flights are not reportable under PRIA. I just did an editorial on this in the Nov. Professional Pilot Magazine. If you're interested, send me a PM and I'll link you to my personal website where I posted the article.

Pretty much on par what was said above, except there will be no incident/accident data included via a PRIA report from the FAA. However, an FOIA request will yield those results.

It is not required but nothing prohibits a hiring carrier to send a PRIA request to a Part 141 school, and nothing prohibits the 141 school to send the information to the hiring carrier.

I believe it's a good idea for the hiring carrier to request that information from a 141 school to see if there are any issues or trends, you want to do everything possible to hire the best applicant.

This is not the case under the new electronic PRIA (yet to be enacted but scheduled). Pilots need to educate themselves on this. The electronic version is one stop shopping and continues for the life of the pilot including written test and practical test results. Everything on microfiche in OKC is being digitized. Incidents and accidents previously expunged after five years will remain indefinitely. This is a little known clause buried in the aviation safety act passed after the Colgan crash. To really get a sense of the impact you need to read the legislation.

I spent 6+ weeks researching this including collaboration with the FAA and NTSB. Also included are terminations (even in 91 ops) even if unrelated to flying ability. If you tick off Mr. high net worth individual and he fires you, it's reportable under the new PRIA.

When someone is applying for a job with a major I don't see how 'trends' that happened 10+ years ago in PPL and IR training should have any weight on whether they get the job. Your performance in 121/135 jobs and training programs would show the better trend as far as how you'll do at a major.

The NTSB and Congress do not agree with that premise. Years ago the NTSB was looking at requiring the FAA to exclude those with multiple failures from getting any 135/121 job. It did not gain traction and was dropped. Basically after a certain number of busts you were done for good.

Interesting, when does the "electronic version" become live? So you are saying if someone got fired from a flying job 10, 15 or 20 years ago it would show forever?

Airlines check your work history as it is now, they call previous employers and can find out if you were terminated or not.

Any check ride that is for a rating is PRIA reportable. If you fill out an 8710 it is reportable. If you just busted a stage check or end of course part 141 it is not.

I have often wondered what percentage of pilots have some sort of bust on their record. Whether it be an old 61 bust, 141 EOC, PC, oral, written or something else.

So am I understanding this correctly...up until 2012 airman records were still on microfiche? 2012? And it took an act of congress to put it on a computer? In 2012?

Imagine the headlines: "Pilot of accident aircraft had a history of failed checkrides"

If I was in HR at a major, that would be a huge liability red flag against you.

It'a all about the majors limiting their exposure to liability.
Headline: Pilot of accident aircraft had a history of failed checkrides.

I would be in total favor of that.

And how many is too many? You bust your PPL once and CFI Twice your career is over? That's BS.

You bust your ATP, some PCs and a upgrade? Yes, then that's a trend. But besides 3407, is there a correlation between training busts and accidents?

What about pilots with DUIs? Criminal records? Speeding tickets? Are those any better then training busts? Should 135/121 operators not be legally allowed to hire those types too?

PRIA records are still held by airlines. Airmen records are supposedly being digitized in OKC.

For a government agency to undertake a massive IT effort such as scanning millions of documents or setting up a massive database (like a centralized PRIA database), funding is required. Manpower is required.

The FAA operates on a shoestring budget with a minimal staff that is constantly fluctuating with every reauthorization act/administration. After repeated series of Republican budget cuts at the Federal level over the last decade, it shouldn't surprise anyone that things are still stored on microfilm in OKC.

Most people have one or more on record unless they went to all in house, had good examiners or were just amazing students.

The useful information in this thread stopped somewhere on page 2, since then it's been full of much conjecture.

I wish a law like that would be enacted too. I want somebody squeaky clean sharing my flight deck or flying my family around.

Does PRIA even do anything? I mean there's multiple airlines so desperate they disregard PRIA, DUI's, 709's, enforcement actions and other serious issues just to fill the seat.

No. But that's the free market world.

That's all fine and dandy until a bunch of innocent people are killed.

Again.

PRIA doesnt mean much....all it says is a carrier has to request the records from a previous company. They do not have to receive the records or even open the envelope or if even pay attention to the record if they do open the envelope.

Airlines were instructed to turn over records to the FAA to be digitized. The central PRIA database will house all the records. Airlines will report, not store. One request is the future method of access.

No conjecture on my part. One of my contacts is a current, sitting NTSB board member. Also have the advantage of editors and fact checkers when publishing an article. Everything I've said is truthful. But 6 weeks of searching government docs, congressional proceedings, and the federal register will do that.

This is actually true. Bad PRIA does not legally preclude hiring. The purpose is to assist with the decision.