Welders $200,000
 

Welders Earning $100 an Hour Hindering U.S. Chemical Boom
By Christopher Martin and Jack Kaskey Dec 10, 2014 11:49 AM ET 129 Comments Email Print
Facebook
Twitter
Google+
LinkedIn
Save

Photographer: Aaron M. Sprecher/Bloomberg
The Houston metropolitan area added 12,900 construction jobs in the year through... Read More
John Floren’s plans to dismantle two petrochemical plants in Chile and rebuild them in Louisiana didn’t include paying welders and pipe fitters more than $100 a hour, almost 20 percent more than expected.

That’s one reason the project has run at least $300 million over budget, said Floren, chief executive officer of Vancouver-based Methanex Corp. (MEOH)

A growing surplus of cheap natural gas from shale drilling is driving a boom in the U.S. chemical industry, which uses the fuel as a raw material for plastics, fertilizer and paints. Plans by chemical companies to build or expand 215 plants worth $133 billion in the U.S., however, are overwhelming the construction work force in the primarily rural areas where they would be located, boosting costs and causing delays.

“We’re all competing for the same limited workforce,” Floren said in an interview. “The only way to address that is train people, which takes time, or bring in foreign workers, which is not allowed.”

Other chemical companies are facing the same issues, Nassef Sawiris, the CEO of OCI (OCI) NV, said in a joint interview at Bloomberg’s New York headquarters with Floren and Charlie Yao, chief of the Chinese methanol producer Yuhuang Chemical Inc.

“It’s a shocker,” Sawiris said.

OCI, based in Geleen, Netherlands, is already over budget because of labor costs at a nitrogen fertilizer plant under construction in Iowa, according to Sawiris, and he’s having difficulty finding trained construction workers at a methanol facility in Texas that’s expected to open in 2016.

Reconsidering Plans

Some companies are probably reconsidering building plans as a result of the labor crunch, he said. “There were like 10 projects announced after our project got started,” Sawiris said. “None of them in the last 18 months has hit the ground.”

Cost increases will only get worse as new methanol and ammonia plants compete for construction labor with liquefied natural gas terminals and ethylene plants on the U.S. Gulf Coast, said Chris Shaw, a New York-based analyst at Monness, Crespi, Hardt & Co. Project delays and cancellations are likely making chemical supplies tighter than forecast, he said.

The specialized skills needed to build these plants haven’t been in demand for decades. With so much cheap gas, companies are now planning chemical facilities across the region, and the wave of investment has boosted employment around the Gulf. The Houston metropolitan area added 12,900 construction jobs in the year through October, more than any other region, according to an analysis of federal employment data by the Associated General Contractors of America.

Biggest Worry

The trade group found in a September survey of 1,086 construction firms that 83 percent had trouble filling some craft positions and 62 percent had difficulties finding people for professional jobs.

“The biggest worry for most contractors these days is the availability of construction labor, especially for specialized projects” like chemical plants, said Ken Simonson, the industry group’s chief economist. “So many projects requiring the same skill set have been announced or planned that there are sure to be delays, either in fabricating and delivering components, or in erecting them.”

To contact the reporters on this story: Christopher Martin in New York at [email protected]; Jack Kaskey in Houston at [email protected]

And we have management on here saying regional first officers should not start at $100,000/year.

The party is over. We will no longer tolerate this nonsense. A college degree, $100,000 of training and the years to get 1500 hours of experience will yield a minimum of $100,000.

As with welders, it's simple supply and demand.

I can weld and fly.. I should get 200 bucks an hour!

We need to charge $100/hr to fly, and $2000 per landing!

Welders $200,000
 

Yeah, I worked in a steel shop for over a year grinding and welding before I started flying. Have fun sweating and or freezing your ass off while getting cancer doing that ****! Hahah what a bunch of whiney pilots on here... Amazing.

Many of us started our flying career sweating and freezing our asses off and some in much more dangerous situation than a tool & die or welding shop. We didn't go right to the commuters, we actually had experience.....Gasp...

Back to normal programming.

The only thing this article highlights is that it says ' they are all competing for the same work force' that doesn't happen in our sector of work.

Pilots are still competing for the same jobs. Therefore no %20 raise.

What if I weld and drive trucks at the same time?

By all means, please go become a welder. Weeks on the road doing contract work in the middle of nowhere. Working with a bunch of sweaty dudes all day. Blowing off steam at the local watering hole at night. Sending your paycheck back home so the ex wife can spend it. Doesn't sound too much different than flying.

The boom is on, but it won't last forever for those guys.

The only way to consistently make $200K welding is going to involve diving...probably in deep, cold water.

Welders $200,000
 

It does not appear that the "party is over". Pilots are showing management that they are willing to work for less and less provided a chance at faster career progression exists. So long as pilots continue to flock to be low paying, quick-upgrading regional of the day there is little incentive to raise pay. It's simple supply and demand.

What a professional pays is not directly linked to the cost of entry (cost being time and money).

It also depends on the desirability of the job itself (fun factor), social prestige (people will work for less if what they are doing is regarded highly), and most importantly supply and demand.

The welders have a low cost of entry but other than that it's not a particularly fun job (industrial welding), it has low prestige, and right now demand is high.

Pilots are falling all over themselves to fly for next to nothing because all of the factors I just mentioned for welders apply in reverse to pilots.

With oil heading toward $50 and below, those boom towns in ND will quickly become ghost towns. 4 years ago I told an unemployed guy to look at Craigslist job listings in ND, 2 weeks later he was in ND making 100k+ driving a truck, and still there today.

What are you going to tell him to do now?

The only guys making anywhere near those figures have their own rigs. If you think learning to fly was expensive look at the cost to outfit and maintain a welding rig. It's akin to running your own business, working contract work.

No cheap Chinese crap on those things, just Blue and Red.

It would be akin to being a contract pilot, supplying all equipment and ratings needed (SimCom or FSI current, all charts, etc.) and pay for your own transportation to/from, hotels, etc. A buddy of mine was typed in Falcons (had numerous types) and would do side trips making $1,500 a day + expenses.

This is true and the work is tough but they also get a hefty daily rate on top of their hourly when they own their own rig. It's a lot of money.

No welders on W2 payroll are making $100/hr. Even union ones. That's >$200k a year. Nope not happening.

Yes, if they own their own rigs, they might be bringing that in. Or more. But it's running a business. One guy I know spends $750 a week on average in diesel fuel alone. Not to mention consumables (been to Airgas recently?).

If you operated a 400 series Cessna on charter, with a rate of $600/hr, are you making $600/hr? Of course not. Same exact thing.

I've seen contract engineers making rates like that and (much) more, it just depends on the going rate for what you do at the time. If you are the guy with what they need you can negotiate the heck out an hourly rate. There was a guy at a bizjet company I used to work for who made more than $250 an hour base rate with overtime kicking in after 40, he was the only guy who knew what they needed. He worked 60 hour minimum weeks, he used to buy me dinner on Thursday when he hit 40 that week and then we'd go for beers. There is no morality in such pay rates, and there is no mercy for you whenever the company is done with you either, no matter how good a deal they got at the time. If some welder has what they need now and a billion dollars is at stake they'll pay the hourly rate to keep him there.

I own a business up there and have 6 CDL drivers. They work 3 on 1 off and easily make 100K. It's not uncommon for my guys to make 10K a month. Might be a thing of the past here soon though with low oil. We'll see in about 6 months.

I paid a guy to weld a hole in a trailer. Basic steel trailer, easy weld job. Took him about 10 minutes plus about an hour of driving time to get to us. Charged me $600. I think he was making 200K. He did have his own rig and business.

How much of that $600 do you think went to liability insurance off the top? Then add another 30% for government taxes. Cost of the rig, mx, consumables, various government fees, marketing, office space, the list goes on. Plus being contract he's not making that day in and day out (although I hear work up in ND, UT, NM is pretty steady).

If y'all think you can drop a couple grand and take a 6 month community college course, get a 4G cert, and make $100/hr 40+ hours a week go for it.

Personally, I wouldn't quit your day job, welding (real welding) is an art/science/engineering all rolled up into one trade.

This guy is nonstop busy up there. Has been for 4 years. He has made a small fortune. I agree with you on the welding. Can't just take a course and know how to weld. It's tougher than everyone thinks it is.

I am into metal working, and machining. Have a lathe and milling machine. I can machine some nice stuff, but I sure as hell can't weld worth a damn! It is an art, and I am not an artist!

You're talking about an area of the country where strippers fly in for the weekend because they make so much money.

Not really comparable to the rest of the country for anything.

What does a single bedroom apt rent for up there nowadays? Last I heard in Williston is was over $2k for a crappy one.

There is a lot of money up there but I have a feeling it's going to crash soon.

I was a welder before I quit and started flying full time. Biggest mistake of my life. As a welder I was bringing home $4500/week and that was no rig truck. The oil industry counts for very little of the actual welding jobs out there. Energy companies are the place to be.

$18000/month and you quit to fly? And you continue to fly?

It's not that high, but you can't find any places that are nice. We pay $3,000 for a crappy 3 bedroom modular home. I can easily rent a shared room spot out for $500 in our house.

I was a welder before and during college, with my own truck.

I still haven't met that annual income, almost 20 years later.

I doubt this 'headline' is any more accurate in the big picture than if I posted 'Pilot makes $300,000'
Sure there is a pilot that makes that much, and more, but then this forum would have 20 pages ridiculing the author for not pointing out that it is only the very top percentage that make that much.
Seems that people are quick to latch onto these stories for other professions.

Try getting one of those welding jobs with Oil now down in the 50's, heading to 40's..

The only good news is that those CRJ200s are now cheap to operate!

The oil industry will still be in boom cycle until mid 2015. Most of those companies have already signed contracts that they will complete even if oil goes to $10. We've got work scheduled until April that will get done. After that, who knows. If it stays in the 50-60 range North Dakota will continue on the oil boom path. There will be lots of smaller companies that will end up being bought by the big guys, but the oil industry is there to stay.

......
 

The "bell hole" test used to seperate the men from the boys. Low hydrogen stick welding It gets x-rayed.

My grandfather was a big contractor. It's how I got my college money back in the day to become a pilot.

Have you seen some of the SKYW hotels, at least when you are underwater you only have to dodge sharks jellyfish and the bends, instead of drug cartels and robbers.

Been welding TIG,MIG, Stick, Oxy for 35 years and recently got into Micro Tig. Had my 6G cert for 4 years, don't think I would do the job for $100 per hourly. Welding is 30% science, 68% technique and 2% luck. The luck component is not having to weld head down in a ditch or some other jacked up position, with slag/sparks rolling down your sleeves. Those that think doing a walk around in the rain is tough wouldn't make it out of welding school. Bottom line is, most pilots are soft, doughy soft.

Totally agree

Retire early?

I want my $200,000. Welders make $200,000. I am more awesome than a welder. If you don't pay me $200,000 for being so awesome you are not being fair. I want my $200,000 and I want it now. Where is my $200,000?

....
 

Couldn't agree more. Plus the fact that if some of the more socially inept on here tried to flex their 4th stripe on some of the nuckle draggers on your typical construction site--it would probably result in an ambulance ride.

Just sayin.

I flew with you 3 weeks ago....

LOL. I love the posts where pilots find some technical profession that makes more money, then claim we require more training and skill, therefore should be paid at least that, maybe more.

Welding is hard. Way harder than flying an airplane. If you don't believe me, go take a few welding classes. Yeah, Ironworkers and Pipefitters make crazy money too. If you like hanging out on a beam all day 20 stories above a busy Manhattan street, go for it. CEOs make millions per year. They also die of heart attacks in their 60s after working 100 hours a week for 20 years. Everything is relative. So just program your FMS, engage your autopilot, then sit back and enjoy the view.

When I was a member of the UAW, they had a pay scale for various skilled trades. The highest rate was a tie between Tool & Die Maker and Master Welder. Don't remember the exact figures (50 years ago), but it was a lot of money.