I think the idea that Envoy has a better contract than PSA is highly debatable. From what it looks like their SAP makes quality of life much better than all but the most senior of Envoy pilots could hope to attain.

Sorry to bust your bubble...

Psa management have been manipulation their critical coverage, the Sap is not working as advertise. Probably for some people but for everyone.

Source: PSA CA friend of mine.

Isn't bZzzzt an ex envoy guy that ran off somewhere else? That would make a lot of sense. He wants to see envoy fail so his decision was the right one. He wants to see this place fail, the demise of many pilots and thur families, so his decision can be vilified? Ouch. What is wrong with our society?

According to him, he left for a family bussiness. Still lurking around and feel bad because he did the pilot thing for the money. Well...of course every school tells you, you will be in a major in no time making money. I guess he believed them, and wasted a good part of his life doing something he really don't like.

I have a lot of downtime now thanks to the career change so I check in on these boards pretty often. Like the other guy said I got into the industry and shouldn't have, I never did enjoy flying. Since I've left though I can see things from a different perspective and Envoy pilots on here have a lot of optimism even with no tangible evidence of anything good happening. Those guys existed while I was there also but it's still interesting to see.

The critical coverage thing truly is an issue, but the SAP is doing just fine. The company obviously doesn't want people using the SAP and therefore will not help anyone who is having issues. The union produced a guide that removes 90% of said issues, allowing pilots to use the SAP.

It takes a little time(sometimes a few hours) to process trades but you can still get the schedule you want with a little patience.

Don't be that guy.... Crusader is nothing but a hypocrite but that's just classless.....

This is just downright disrespectful. You need to remember that there are thousands of people that are being affected by the transfer of aircraft. Not only the pilots but also flight attendants and maintenance staff. Some of them had no say in the contract negotiations and are at risk of losing their jobs. To make a comment like that not only looks bad upon you, but also your group. It is childish and unprofessional.

Dude come on... No sense in rubbing salt in an obviously sore wound. The truth is PSA is going to to be a big regional for AAG. And one day we may face what Envoy has been facing the past couple years. Yes PC goes around flaming other pilot groups. Does he deserve to be treated like a jerk sometimes? Maybe. But a lot of people read these boards (including management) so don't go around jesting other pilot groups that way. I'm glad to be at a growing airline. And it is unfortunately at the expense of another ALPA pilot group which is just a shame.

I don't really think it is flaming. Initially I was even somewhat civil about it. I really have only ever gone at PSA, and a little Mesa. I am an envoy pilot, and as you just so eloquently stated, my world was being destroyed by your airline. As much as I hate to admit it, I have been calmed by rational arguments from people like Pagey.

However, it is people like CBreezy that have really brought out the worst in me. This is not the first time he has shown his true colors either.

On the other hand, I'd be glad to see every pilot make $100k. Don't kid yourself into a pilot vs. pilot mentality. It's management pulling the strings. The sooner we forget that, the easier it is to become the puppets.

Every airline has jerks...especially on the internet.

Lets be civil and move on. I honestly wish Envoy the best of luck in their negotiations and that things improve.

I just don't see a lot of union emails being pasted on APC from other regionals is all. I think it more appropriate for a private forum. Just my opinion I guess.

I agree with you. I'm just saying not everyone wants to see you burn just to get a few airplanes.

Well, all I know is that you frequent the PSA thread and talk crap constantly. And that's your prerogative and no one will stop you. But life's just too short. If you are that unhappy with the way your career is turning out, then make a new one. This is my 3rd career. Better and worse than my previous 2 in different ways. I have no illusions about being a regional pilot, it's all a roll of the dice. EVERY pilot should have back-up plans in case things don't turn out the way they want. And besides, your anger is basically directed at about 300 of our now 1,000+ pilot group. And many of those original 300 are not even at PSA anymore. As unfortunate as it may seem to you, many new hires don't have a clue about what has happened to Envoy. Those of us who do certainly feel for you. And it is completely unprofessional for those in our ranks to go around saying hurtful things.

242 actually. I'd guess about 60 of which are no longer with PSA.

It has very little to do with me. I am a 60 something lifer who has made his peace in life; though it would have been great to see the big leagues, I've had a good career here with a great quality of life and income.

Where my anger comes from is how bad I feel for my FOs. They have had it rough here at Eagle. Much harder than I ever did. It is hard to think this career can be anything but fair when I see my 7 year FOs suffering while some kid is going to be in the left seat at PSA in a year. It burns.
I have never agreed, and probably never will, with the reasoning behind PSA yes voters. Let us not rehash that here, again. That being said, wounds heal if you let them.

That is appreciated. I'll try not to generalize.

Aww, I knew we had something going. ;)

It was Tom Brady wasn't it?

Excuse me if my remark is completely out of place, but why in the world would AAG be trying to invest so much in what they just destroyed? They took down an airline's entire identity, going from 6 bases down to soon to be 2 bases, and completely stripping their fleet down eventually only two types of Embraers. Did they go too far with Envoy, and now their whipsaw is working a little bit too hard that they realize they still need to keep Envoy alive a little longer? PSA, and PDT can't grow fast enough, and Envoy was a large part of their feed that they've been unsuccessfully trying to transfer to other carriers fast enough. Why in the world would they invest so much in what they just literally divested? It seems completely against financial sense, it seems to almost cancel out the entire whipsaw effect they have been trying to create in order to generate revenue. Feel free to correct my wondering. It just seems insane to me to try and rebuild something they have almost completely destroyed... :confused:

I really hope the best for those at Eagle (Envoy). I have a few friends working there, and they have families they're trying to take care of, and all this craziness has had a large effect on their future with the company.

parker and his boys have gotten over there insecurity brought upon them by a bunch of little peons telling the NO 4 times and now they realize they went to far and want to make up.

No. I understand that there's a strong psychological urge to build this narrative, but it's ridiculous.
It's simple--Kirby and Parker had a plan when they took over, and everything that has happened has simply been their attempts to make that plan work. There is no need to build a digestible story with moral arcs.
The plan was to massively shrink Eagle/Envoy, diversify the feed, and lock in the whole cheap-labor regional system for the long term before it could break down (decade-long contracts). They wanted to define a career path that starts with being a severely underpaid regional pilot, so that new pilots are funneled in at the bottom instead of the middle and AA keeps a steady supply of labor (flow). And they wanted to solve the problem, from their perspective, of "overpaid" long-term regional pilots not by guaranteeing career progression but by simply capping pay at an "acceptable" longevity.
All of these things are now accomplished. They have everything they want, and for the long term. So if it takes some "investment" now to keep everything well-oiled and humming along, they are perfectly willing to do that. But don't try to assign them sentiments as if they're now "realizing they went too far" or "rewarding us" or trying to "bury the hatchet". They're not throwing money at something they destroyed, they're investing in a system they created. Everything, from their perspective, went exactly according to plan. If you hate the regional model, this should make you very angry. But, as it turns out, a strong majority are totally fine with it. Is what it is.

most logical post i've seen to date.....seriously

FU***NG A!! This guy has it dialed in! Welcome to the new world:D