Originally Posted by ComAirColonel (Post 1884296)

The union reps at the regionals are their own worst enemies. They have the power to double their pay rates but they are more concerned with chasing carrots, the chance to get to a major airline. They think there is something magical about flying a 737 compared to an RJ. Having over 5000 hours as a 737 captain, 3000 hours as a 767/757 Captain and 6000 as a 737 Captain, I can say that there is very little difference between flying the big plane and the RJ. The overwater stuff is something additional, and the big plane pilot has more live bodies, but otherwise they each have their own pluses and minuses. In fact while the big plane pilot is flying one or 2 legs a day the RJ pilot may be flying 4, 5, or 6. And the FedX and UPS guys don't mind being paid well.
I think the main difference is in self respect. The RJ captain does not consider himself worthy of having self respect, his airline has the word express at the end. He sees himself as a pilot in training when he is actually a real pilot.
In this topic the regional union rep wants to lower the minimums so his company can hire more pilots, more people will become captains and more will build that special PIC time. They want to help their companies by allowing the company to give bonuses to new hires rather than attracting pilots with a better contract for all. That is rather silly. They are basically telling the company to take 12 to 20k per year from their own families and to give the new hire 10k so the company can add get the pilot.
That is actually doing the opposite. Without the bonuses the RJ pilot pay would double. Not only the 15-20% increase that Republic and Gojet unions are asking for. With the higher pay, pilots will stop going overseas and will start to return. Pilots who are sitting at home rather than going to work for 20,000 a year will go back to flying. The companies will get more pilots, the RJ pilots will get their precious PIC time.
Now, assume I am wrong. The RJ Unions stop the bonuses and the airlines still refuse to pay pilots to fly airplanes, what will happen? Well, pilots at the majors will continue to retire, airlines will continue to grow 3 to 5% a year and the majors will still have to hire from the regionals. Few new pilots will be created because what idiot is going to spend all that money to become a pilot to make 20k a year? (Ok, many of you did it, but assume people are wising up after seeing you living in your parent's basement.) The RJ pilots that are so worried about their companies getting pilots will still end up at the majors because there won't be anyone else! And the majors will have to increase pay to get pilots.
So stop the stupid bonuses that allow the companies to pay the new hire more money than the pilots who are already there. Stop the bonuses that allow the companies to not pay market rate for pilots. Get the money you and your family deserve. Stop starving your kids so that you can chase that stupid carrot. You are a highly trained professional in a profession that is desperate for your craft, have the self respect to demand what you are worth and the self respect not to accept less. Tell the union rep to see the light and demand 100% pay increases for all and not just 10k for the new guy.

Originally Posted by ComAirColonel (Post 1884296)

They have the power to double their pay rates but they are more concerned with chasing carrots, the chance to get to a major airline.

Originally Posted by USMCmech (Post 1884499)

90 Montebello Rd - Unit 3 List Price: $349,000
ional News[/url]

Apparently the purple and brown feeders are feeling the impact as well.

"To stem the flow, Ameriflight raised its pay rates by about 20 percent last November, and another increase took effect recently. A senior Embraer EMB-120 captain now makes $89,000 per year, and a Piper Chieftain pilot $43,000 (up from $28,000)."

Leaving Amflt to go to Mesa will now be a 30-40K pay cut.

Originally Posted by block30 (Post 1884498)

Originally Posted by Slick111 (Post 1884560)

Let's play along with the RAA for a minute and follow their wish to the logical conclusion. Let's assume that regional airline management(s) are successful in repealing the 1500 hour rule and let's say that the minimums are lowered to 500 hours, total time.

When minimums are reduced to 500 hours, total time, nearly every CFI in the nation will apply to a regional airline and will be hired. This will lead to a severe shortage of CFI's, which will lead to a severe shortage of private/instrument/multi/commercial pilots, which will lead to even MORE severe shortage of CFI's, which leads us back to a severe shortage of regional airline pilot candidates.

This thing has reached critical mass! And regional airline management is too short-sighted to see that lowering the requirement to become a 121 first officer is not in their best interest, long term. In fact, as I see it, lowering the minimums will exacerbate the problem.

Originally Posted by pilotgdx (Post 1884411)

I couldn't agree more!!! So many regional guys are working the line and treat it like a transient stage in their careers. I've never met an attorney or a doctor, who would be solely oriented on chasing that big law firm or his/her own major practice. Many attorneys don't make more than regional FOs and neither do many doctors. Yet, a JD is a JD and MD is an MD!!! Professional pride issue?

Originally Posted by Fegelein (Post 1884812)

The vast majority of r̶e̶g̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶ pilots would never be accepted into a medical or law school program.

Originally Posted by block30 (Post 1884575)

This is exactly my point, too. And its not just the lack of CFI numbers, but a lack of CFIs who know what the hell they doing to adequately teach future pilots and future CFIs.

Also, I see 2014 data is out....almost all areas are UP, except new ATPs (makes sense now that the rush to comply all regional FOs is done) and student pilots are down 300 newbies year over year. See my signature line as well.

2014 FAA original issuances;
Student 49,261
Private 17,795
Commercial 9,803
ATP 7,749
instrument 11,290
CFI 4,987

It seems like the sky is NOT falling. More pilots generated than last year. The pilots *continue* to be there, but employers will have to offer the right compensation to attract those pilots.

P.S. also note that again, more than 200 commercials were indeed issued by the FAA. Just like happens every year.

Originally Posted by lifter123 (Post 1884866)

Are those numbers for airplanes only? Or do they include helos, gliders, balloons, etc...?

Originally Posted by Fegelein (Post 1884812)

Quit comparing a Riddle or UND degree to a medical or law degree. They are not the same. The vast majority of regional pilots would never be accepted into a medical or law school program.

Originally Posted by Rahlifer (Post 1884954)

I've never understood the fascination pilots have with comparing themselves to doctors. Doctors have over a decade of higher education along with an intimate working knowledge of biology, chemistry and physics. A degree in mediveal poetry still allows one to cheek the box and be a pilot.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 1885020)

No, it doesn't. I guarantee if you only have that degree, you can't be hired as a pilot. You have to go to pilot-school too.

People tend to rationalize their situation because they "want to believe" they can make it to the international 777 job. Some will make it. Many(most) will not. People experience this kind of denial of reality in many walks of life. Basic human psychology. Unfortunately, this shifts the focus away from making the present situation better, which is great for the employer.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 1885020)

No, it doesn't. I guarantee if you only have that degree, you can't be hired as a pilot. You have to go to pilot-school too.

People tend to rationalize their situation because they "want to believe" they can make it to the international 777 job. Some will make it. Many(most) will not. People experience this kind of denial of reality in many walks of life. Basic human psychology. Unfortunately, this shifts the focus away from making the present situation better, which is great for the employer.

Originally Posted by Slick111 (Post 1885056)

So I hear that the RAA is trying very hard to rescind the ATP rule.

Discuss.

Originally Posted by FirstClass (Post 1885265)

At this point rescinding the rule my be more harmful. We'd move from an airline pilot shortage to a cfi shortage.

But even before the 1500 hour rule, weren't we already on a path to a shortage with less people entering the profession due to pay and QOL issues?

The 1500 hour rule really had nothing to do with the events of 2001 through 2010 which would probably be some of the main causal factors. No doubt though the 1500 rule exacerbated the problem though.

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 1885272)

If the government is truly concerned about the "pilot shortage," they need to commission a study to accurately determine how many of those fancy new Private, Instrument and Commercial certificates are eligible to work in the US versus international carriers.

We all need to remember the staggering amount of pilots needed to staff flying across the booming international market, especially the Asian market. A large percentage of them are being trained in the United States. Not until a real effort is made to find out how many US pilots are being trained, we will never have any idea to what extent this shortage will impact the US market, if at all.

Originally Posted by chazbird (Post 1885340)

US government could disallow their employees to travel on carriers, or carriers contracted with a major carrier, where the flight crew, or any employee of the company, is on any form of federal, or federally subsidized, aid (IE food stamps). When the government lets contracts with private companies they frequently require specific minimum/living wage or other similar conditions or they do not award the contracts. A 14 HR duty day with 2 hours of flying at $23 an hour is less than the federally mandated minimum wage. Carriers that scheduled or operated even one of those flights would face a blackout/ban of federal employees passengers for the entire carrier, including the overseeing carrier (IE major) Makes good sense, huh? But...good luck with that idea.

Originally Posted by Planedrive (Post 1885743)

Who would want to become a pilot when you can make more flipping burgers and be home every night to see your family. Pay/poor benefits is the only cause of this "pilot shortage"

Originally Posted by Rahlifer (Post 1884954)

I've never understood the fascination pilots have with comparing themselves to doctors. Doctors have over a decade of higher education along with an intimate working knowledge of biology, chemistry and physics. A degree in mediveal poetry still allows one to cheek the box and be a pilot. Pilots are trained through practice and repetition to complete tasks. Anyone can be a pilot, but most people could never be a doctor. It's a ridiculous comparison. Not even apples and oranges.

Even if we did somehow cause hell to freeze over and double pay at the regionals, we'd still be regional pilots fighting over scraps from the mainline partners. We're completely replaceable by whatever company can do it for a dollar cheaper. Making it to mainline is not just an ego/paycheck thing. It's also about a slight modicum of stability as well as being treated like a human. No regional will ever be a safe place to call a "career".

Originally Posted by Planedrive (Post 1885743)

I think is is very important people stop calling this "The 1500 Hour Rule."

Military pilots only need 750 hours.

Four year university grads only need 1000 hours.

After graduating college with around 250 hours the students will only need to gain more experience for about 1 year before they can be hired into an airline.

Who would want to become a pilot when you can make more flipping burgers and be home every night to see your family. Pay/poor benefits is the only cause of this "pilot shortage"

Originally Posted by SMACFUM (Post 1885467)

Make sure to read the last paragraph of this article. Thoughts??? First steps already underway at the FAA to further erode the ATP requirement for 121 SICs???

Pilot Shortage Turns to Crisis among Small Cargo Carriers | Air Transport: Aviation International News

"John Duncan, director of the FAA’s Flight Standards Service, attended the entire RACCA conference and tried to assuage some of the members’ concerns. He assured members that the FAA is working on rulemaking that would allow time-building pilots to log legitimate flight time in the right seat of a twin-engine airplane that normally needs a single pilot. “The process takes some time,” he said. “We are pushing that to the top.” As for the Ameriflight exemption to lower the number of hours required to fly as pilot-in-command under IFR, he added, “we’re working that as well. We understand the urgency.” Flooded with unmanned aircraft exemption requests, the FAA has become overwhelmed, he indicated. “Our resources are strained,” said Duncan."