Piedmont is being merged with PSA, its in the works.

Oh that makes sense lol. That rumor has been rolling around for like 15 years, and now it couldn't be further from the truth. Different fleet plans and vastly different contracts. Three WO's is what AAG wants, one CRJ operator, one E175 operator, and one E145 operator, for now. We become the wholly-owned triforce and will start flying more and more RAH, AWAC, TSA routes for AA. In-house flying, more control...it's good and bad for us as pilots, but that is what they want.

Poor PSA! They are already realizing that our new hires will flow to American before half of there current pilot group.

But you didn't hear that from me.

They are starting to make their way over...the smart ones anyway. We need a new slogan...Piedmont, the Smart Choice! Oh...wait...damn you Air Woosterschnitzen!

Ummm, what? If growth stops at PDT, doesn't that affect your flow numbers? Also, how is PDT's flow much faster then envoy's?

You're starting to sound like FirstClass and spewing things out as fact without providing any proof. While I'm known as an "envoy cheerleader" I'm happy to say I don't have to lie to prospective applicants. I've always told the good, the bad, and the ugly unlike a lot of you.

Keep dreaming. You really think they are giving you our jets and setting up that whole program as training wheels just so they can start all over again and get bigger one's later? lol. You aren't getting 175's unless you get merged with Envoy. Why would they do everything, and spend all the $$$ to get them set up on our certificate, with the options placed here already after our initial 40.. then waste all that time/money all over again for Piedmont to get them too? Unless you guys plan on signing some PSA type backstabbing deal it isn't happening. Plus, have you seen the scope limitations AA is bumping up against for more 175's or 900's? Pretty much any more would be coming at the expense of something else..

and how exactly is your flow going to be "much" faster than Envoy's at only 4/5 month or whatever if your growth stops? Who cares if we are bigger, we flow a much larger number every month and our pilot group is getting smaller. The flow is pretty even..

Yeah, you are right.. we shouldn't compare Envoy to Piedmont. Envoy has an all jet fleet with over 2000 pilots still. Piedmont has around 400 pilots and ZERO jets transferred to date. Only promises.. AA has been delaying our transfers and awarding more flying to Envoy every month since we can actually staff it and are already current and qualified in the airplanes... not saying they won't "eventually" be transferred, with big delays.. but thinking you are getting 175's too is ridiculous.

First off where the hell did I say Piedmont's Flow was faster then Envoys?? If Piedmonts growth stops that's even better for everyone in terms of flow! Are you dumb or something?? Piedmont is NO WHERE near the size of Envoy you nerd and that's our flow advantage! hahahahahahahah Lordy Lordy!

I'm sorry for calling you an dumb. Not cool! I'll just pat you on the head and let you go run outside and play little fella. :-)

We will retire a little over 5000 by 2025. (Out of about 10300).
Even older group at USair.
If you are have your ducks in order get some PIC fast and get hired fast.
If you really want to live in AA base it may be worth it to go Envoy/PDT but could be a sacrifice of future seniority.

You'll upgrade in less then a Year at Piedmont. What's your point???

Where did I say YOUR 175's!! You guys are trigger happy! hahahahah

Too funny! Management is laughing there a$$ off! Envoy people coming on here thinking there poop is better then everyone else's! hahahahahahahah Dude you guys suck just like PSA and PDT right???

They get so riled up over nothing...glad to be chilling on this side of the fence :)

Your flow will be much faster then Envoy's and definitely a bunch faster then PSA's Here you go.


As for your flow being good for everyone on property if the growth stops, I'm seriously trying to figure out your rationalization. If there's no more growth at PDT and there are very few incoming new-hires, then the only benefit to the flow is anyone currently on property (and hopefully quite senior.) Even then it will be what, 3/month? Aren't your flow numbers predicated on the size of your pilot group? So if there's no growth, then you guys send 3/month (if it's 1 or 2 more then that, I apologize for not getting the number 100% accurate.) At 36-50/year that's going to take a hell of a long time to flow. That being said, are you sure that your flow is better for everyone on property if there is no more growth?

It's because if we are small and growth stops then it's all good. That's where I'm getting. If we had 1200 pilots and the flow stops then yes it will be a long time.

None of this really matters. The advantage of Piedmont is we are just starting to grow. That's all. That's it.

Once Envoy's 824, the protected whatever, and all that jazz go...now you're down to growth based flow just like PDT. Pot meet kettle mf. By the time you are down to that anyone who is at PDT now that wants to flow will be out...see ya.

Nope. What you have yet to realize is that pilots are the new currency in today's regional world. And Envoy has 2100 of them.

We just had a job fair in Chicago with an incredible turnout. Not quite 2006-2007 monthly hiring numbers but not far off. You'll hear about it soon enough. Envoy is going to be THE place to be in the very near future. We are working some other deals that you'll hear about soon too. You might even decide to become an Envoy pilot.

You would've thought with that Currency you wouldn't have taken concessions. Still rubbin' that hiney after that spanking are we??

They got signing bonuses. That drew them in like escorts in Vegas. They got that leverage tho...

Im not sure what you're trying to say here. who's retiring over 5000, AA? And how could being at Envoy/PDT sacrifice seniority? What do you feel is the best option to get to AA?

I didn't say "our" 175's. I just said you won't be getting any without a merge.

Ok, sorry.. maybe there is a 3.7% chance you will somehow manage to get some 175's despite scope restrictions/start up costs/another WO already operating them at that point, new domiciles probably needed and all that small stuff. It's a huge longhot, and years away, if that ever happens.

I Think you would just see a PDT/ENY merge before that ever happened.

Oh like the start up costs and the fact someone is already operating the 145s? If they could have split some 175s initially into PDT they certainly would have. You can thank the FAA for preaching moderation for a couple years. You are underestimating the possibilities....

Ok, I hope all of your wildest dreams come true.

Rather them go there than PSA.

Relax guys, same team. Seriously.

Most of them already have, thank you. :) I'm good right where I am, as I've met my initial goals for the airlines. Yes, I agree about PSA...I almost went there early on and I feel it would have been a mistake. Bottom line is we all will probably be working in the same cockpits one day, and I would hope we have more to talk about than all of this BS.

Be glad you didn't go to PSA. You do realize that most of our FO's will flow to American before many of there Junior Captains. We had a senior PDT FO go there for a jet upgrade, bet he's kickin' himself in the a$$ right now!:eek:

Legacy AA retiring over 5000 in 10 years. 10300 total on the list.
Combined with USair it's over 15000 pilots and I don't know the numbers on the US side but I think they are an even older group.

By sacrificing seniority what I mean is if you are going to get hired at a flow airline you will have to wait many years to get over there. Meanwhile if you go get some PIC and make the effort you could get hired off the street or DAL, UAL a lot faster. Retirements will really start to sky rocket around 2019.
Going the flow route has it's merits.. you may not get hired at all so it can be a sort of insurance policy but will sacrifice some seniority.
Since you ask about best option to AA specifically I would probably play it safe and go to a flow airline but still make the effort to get hired straight off the street. It's an individual choice though. Too many factors like where ya want to live and what not.

I hear ya! Great points made here. Would there be any stipulations with flows that prohibit someone from getting hired off the street At any of the big 3? Because I think your right, beating the flows into the seniority list would be a dream, but having a flow as an insurance policy is a good thing as well. Just wondering if one prohibits the othe?

As far as AA nothing says you can't apply and get hired straight in.. circumventing the flow. And during the past year quite a few people have but still not that common. Mostly special case people like minorities and a guy who's father died on 9/11. I know one that simple worked the job fairs and got hired not knowing anyone but had a great resume with a masters, zero PIC -Envoy FO. Met the right guy.
I think a lot of people at Eagle just don't even bother so ya never know.
If your not married to an American airlines "large" base.. I would do the PIC route and go UAL-DAL.

Your reasoning would make sense however PSA's upgrade is 1.5 years and Piedmont's is going to be less then a year. So if you're saying going to those airlines and upgrading fast and getting PIC time that Delta and United won't touch you. :rolleyes:

PSA's upgrade WAS 1.5 years. That has come to a screeching halt due to being full of low time Captains and First Officers. As each month passes, that upgrade time grows. I don't see many of those low time Captains being snatched up by the Majors when there are so many High Time Captains still competing for those jobs which to me, means that their current stagnation will continue.

Every Regional Airline is hurting for pilots so there's stagnation in many places. There are many High Time Captains that can't get a call. Remember you can get to a point actually that you have too much PIC time and some Majors don't like that either. Believe me I know more then a few people with perfect records that aren't getting calls.

Upgrade and getting about 1500 hrs of PIC time seems to be golden ticket.

You really think so huh? Next time you are at a job fair ask the Delta, AA or United recruiter what the competitive times are. .

Competitive times are around 3000 TPIC and 5-6,000 TT from the numbers I saw. Some had more, some less (military). The vast majority of those being hired are still regional CAs, with some FOs from places like Endeavor, ASA, and ExpressJet getting hired with all the other boxes checked besides 121 PIC.

Numbers are still higher than that for civilian at DAL, UAL said 7-8k total time..

Attachment 2427

Well that's perfect. People complaining about the flow???
5-6000 hours and 3000 PIC is at least 6-8 years at a regional.

These numbers will come down a LOT over the next decade.

Or oil will spike and something bad will happen with terrorism or the economy. Again. And they won't...