How's your Quality of life?
 

Hello guys/gals,
I am a CFII, MEI, ATP who was pursuing a life in aviation. I got involved with a guy who talked me into going another route. I have since found myself making alot more money but with so much more uncertainty. I am asking myself now if it was worth it? Leaving my passion for a more secure future? I am wondering from all you airline fellas/gals here what is your quality of life like? what I mean is if you could do something else that made you the same money for a longer time, and still get to fly when you want to, would you do it? also if you could post what kind of away time you spend from home and weather or not that time bothers you? Thanks for all your hep!

I left my passion (aviation) for a more secure future. I also flew a little on the side (flight instructed) while I pursued that different career. Several years later I am back to flying full time. My quality of life is that I am home for just a little less then half the month and away the rest of the time. I keep in touch with my family every day and when I am home, I am present with them and spend quality time with them. Is it hard? Yes, at times it is, but we all chose this plan together and we are making it work. There are ways to make it work if everyone is on board with the idea.

$h!t.

$h!t, $h!t, $h!t.

You're asking a bunch of REGIONAL airline pilots about their QOL? I would have posted this in major so you could have heard the answer you're looking for. But to answer, You let a boy change your life passion and you've come here for answers. You miss it, clearly, don't let him run your life. If you want to fly, sit him down and tell him that.

This is aviation. Can anything be less certain?

(Rhetorical)

It depends on what type of flying you want to do. If renting a Cessna on the weekends will quench your thirst for flying, and you make good money, do that. You have to be careful with the regionals. It's good if you live in base, get in when there is lot's of movement. If you have to commute, then hopefully you don't have a family, or are not financially dependent on your regional salary, as the commute will take away from both in the form of time and a crash pad. The regionals have a way of sucking the passion out of you if you get in at the wrong time. That being said, there are some good opportunities right now.Once you get some turbine time, there are opportunities outside the regionals as well.
As for leaving flying for something that pays more, it kind of depends.
If I'm flying making less than 50K and gone all the time, and I get a non flying job that pays like 80K, I'll probably take the nnon-flying job. But if I'm at a flying job making 80K with a good schedule, and a non-flying job ,making 120K comes along, I'll probably just manage my finances and and stick with the 80K. Keep in mind I have a family, so the decision might be a little different for a single 23 year old for example.

I left a higher paying job (approx 70k) in HR for PDT. I've commuted 2-3 legs to work for almost 4 years. I still love what I do. I've since upgraded and the honeymoon continues! To me it is worth the time away from home and my family is extremely supportive of my career. The wife loves meeting me on overnights and we make an adventure out of it. I would never want to go back to what I was doing before or do anything else. When I am at work it never feels like work and it's unfortunate some folks can't appreciate it fully. I do understand all situations are unique however.

Word. So many people take this job for granted. Very well said sir, have a good night!

My wife enjoys being with me and has, on several occasions gone with me on an overnight. She gets special treatment by the FAs on the flight, goes out to a nice dinner with me, and stays in a hotel which for her is like a mini vacation. Mind you, I bid weekends off and she works a M-F so it rarely happens but sometimes she does. Maybe not PIA but others, yes.

QOL is pretty good. 4 years at my airline, I intentionally bid reserve due to my seniority and our work rules. Spend just about every day at home (maybe not every night). Fly far less than a hard line and see my wife a lot more. Biggest determining factor for my QOL? Living in base and not commuting.

There are a lot of people on here who got into this job primarily for coolness factor of being an airline pilot. That's the wrong reason to get into any profession whether it be military, doctor, or pilot.

I got into aviation because I love flying and being a professional pilot. Yes, there are tough days, just like any career. As someone who left a former, well-paying career to become a regional airline pilot, I have yet to regret my decision in well over 5 years. You have to look deep inside and figure out why you want to get into aviation. Is it because you think being an airline pilot would be cool? If that's the answer, stay away and fly a Cessna. Is it because you have a love for aviation and a desire to help people even when they may not appreciate it? Then maybe give it a shot.

One last thing. I've seen my parents and friends more times since becoming an airline pilot than I ever did in my previous career. I've seen more of the world than I ever saw with a 9-5. I've gone to visit family for dinner in one state and had drinks with a friend the next night in another. My wife travels a lot as well and I often go visit her or bid for overnights in cities where she will be.

I remember when I interviewed at Eagle they asked "You know you only get 11 days off a month, are you going to be okay with that?"
My response "I only get 4 days off a month at my current job - I work Monday thru Saturday and often work on Sunday" I have WAY more free time than my flight instructing days or even days as a college student.

Travel is a HUGE benefit. My wife has on more than one occasion threatened (jokingly) to leave me if I ever quit or got a job without travel benefits. Unless of course, it makes enough to PAY for First class tickets to London or Tokyo. Which I have done 3 times in one year (2 to London to connect to other cities and once to Tokyo).

yeah those benefits are real great when you are on the other side of the country and your family is number 20 for 3 open seats because its not peak season and they cut 40% of the daily flights

Hence the draw of good travel benefits and boarding priority. My wife or my parents for that matter have never been #20 for anything. My wife travels like an employee does...makes it simple.

Fantastic! Thanks for asking. I am home every night, making OK money. Around $40k on first year pay. Currently I am sitting about number 8 on the list, and next month I basically have a 9-5 job. I show up at 8:30 and I am done by five with six hours of flying. The schedule for most months is four days on, and three days off. But then again we arent your typical regional.

I can't complain. Left the regionals and went to fly 91, with a well known company, great money w/pension but more importantly home just about everyday with the family. I am very lucky.

Funny never had that issue. Had a few close calls and a few times I had to do some creative routing. Proper planning, back up plans and flexibility. If you don't like that, buy a GD ticket.

As an Fo, I never once had trouble paying the bills even with a student loan. I didn't live on Ramen, I didn't struggle to buy groceries and I traveled quite a bit. As a Captain, I'll make over $75k this year. Do I think FO pay should be higher? Of course. Was it doable? Absolutely.

I would suggest that if you do pursue an airline career (regional to start, hopefully winding up at a major) make an effort to find a second line of work as a back-up. It will save you during downturns or any unexpected hiccups along the way. There are a smattering of doctors, dentists and other professionals as well as business owners who also fly for a living. In the end, you have to be as fulfilled as you possibly can with your career choice or else you risk a life of regret. Lots of people making tons of money sitting behind a desk or doing something else more lucrative but hating going to work every morning. Granted, many of us have to make certain choices due to circumstances (family, health, finances etc).

75k as a captain? You must be kidding. That is close to what I make as an FO, and that is not enough.

When are you people going to realize that just because you love you job of flying they should still pay you.

You are one medical or one mistake away from never flying again and you are risking it all for $30/hour.

Regional jobs are no longer stepping stone jobs. The majors have turned them into careers, and you should approach it that way. We are all one economic disaster from furlough, downgrade, or bankruptcy.

75k isn't enough? Seriously? the only way 25k over the national average income isn't enough is if your are buying everything on credit. You've got to change your lifestyle dude. Live within your means. Save money so when you do lose your job it's no big deal man. You won't maybe lose your job you WILL lose it. Start preparing dude!

I'm not saying it is acceptable and that I don't want more. I'm saying that it is livable and if the mainline pilots would take scope back, this wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, this is the system in which we live. At what regional are you making $70/hr as an FO?

i'll agree that the regionals are no longer stepping stone jobs for some pilots.

The argument that one mistake or one medical away from "losing it all" needs more of a qualifier. That is why you have a decent pilot union in the first place. Many folks have gone through medical issues or have done some really dumb things out there and are still flying.

Out in the real world, take a look at the amount of work most people put in just to make 60-100k a year. 50-70+ hours a week, many states have employment at will where you can be fired for anything, favortism and politics for promotional opportunity. Oh, and you can't just not answer your phone, you are tied to work 24/7, many times on vacation too! There is a lot more BS in the non-flying world to contend with. As I stated before, for the amount of money I make a year as a captain, it is probably the easiest and least stressful job I have ever had. If you can self-develop and study, and be a halfway decent mentor and teacher, it really is an enjoyable career.

No, domestic is free. Unless you get First class then there are a few bucks to pay for that but it usually covers itself in food and alcohol I consume.

International premium cabin (F or J/C is almost always. I've never NOT gotten it international) it is worth every penny from food, entertainment, to being able to sleep in a lay flat bed.

I generally have pretty good QOL at my airline. I've been on property since January, had my sim training in March, and finished my IOE in June. I have quickly built seniority in my base, and I can bid a line if I want but I've been bidding reserve to have a little more schedule flexibility. I commute but the commute is relatively painless. 20 minute drive to the airport, and a 45 minute one-leg flight to work. Recently took a 3 week leave that the company was offering. I've had more time off this year than I've ever had with any job and it has been great. My regional is wholly-owned so the travel benefits are pretty good compared to most and myself and my wife haven't experienced any real challenges getting around. I'll likely be able to get some time off for the holidays coming up as well which is almost unheard of for someone who has been at a regional for less than a year.

75k is not enough at all for the job that we do. If you think it is, then I sincerely hope you never make it out of the regionals. I DO NOT want you having the same vote as I have when voting in a contract that could cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars of lifetime earnings.

With the defeatist attitude a lot of you show, you'd be happy making 75-100k your entire career. Airline CEO's must love you.

[QUOTE=sublime259;1976539]75k is not enough at all for the job that we do. If you think it is, then I sincerely hope you never make it out of the regionals. I DO NOT want you having the same vote as I have when voting in a contract that could cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars of lifetime earnings.

With the defeatist attitude a lot of you show, you'd be happy making 75-100k your entire career. Airline CEO's must love you.[/QUOTE

Nothing defeatist about being content making 100k a year, with a good quality of life, choice of schedule, 4-5 weeks of vacation. You are basically working half the year. Not saying there isn't a fight to be fought, but we should be fighting more for the lower end of the scale. Hell I'd be in favor of a salaried scale, 50k/100k or something of the sort with COLA increases every year. It's much harder to be abused on a salary in this industry than on the outside, with the rules we have in place. If you don't agree, then that is the beauty of democracy.

+1. Precisely part of the reason our latest vote didn't pass.

Well if your point of view is typical, then that's just terrifying for the future of our profession. 100k is nothing compared to what it used to be. Maybe something is getting lost in translation, but I am talking about pay scales at the majors. At the regional level, they should hopefully be fixed by the laws of supply and demand (it's already happening.)

Nobody should be content with 100k/year for the job we do, simply for good quality of life. Look at the current pay scales at Delta, United, and AA. Would you still be content flying a 777 across the pond for 100k/year when your time comes? I sure hope not and I sure hope you wouldn't advocate these huge monetary concessions so you can get better quality of life.

I was referring to the regional model with those numbers. However, when making a decision on a contract I do look at all variables involved and make an informed decision for myself. You are stuck on sheer numbers, when there is more to consider. Your example is a bit extreme, as no one is advocating such a thing.

I would argue that you can still promote salaried positions for the majors. That I would certainly advocate. I think you would find that it is easier to negotiate a higher average number. It would look similar to the UPS/FedEx pay scale, but translated into a flat salary.

Dude, Just because I don't live in my parents basement like you doesn't mean I need to change my lifestyle.
Starting FO pay should be 60-70k, and until little kids like you quit agreeing to fly for free it will never happen

https://40.media.tumblr.com/f3935633...8ya7o1_500.jpg

I whole heartedly agree, but all I could think of was this.

Pilots are some of the most fortunate group of hourly workers in the country. The fact that there are hourly workers making $200k+ a year with 16 days off just shows you how strong our unions are. You claim that I'm an idiot for not being upset with $75k a year with 4 years of airline experience. Maybe a little perspective will help you see my point. How much do you think firemen and police make? Their lives and jobs have an imminent inherent danger every day. They actually save lives. I'd argue that showing up to a fire, wreck or crime scene gives them more responsibility than I experience each day flying from ORD-PIA. How much do you think a USAF pilot makes in the prime of their flying career. Captains will make less than $65k and they are tasked with not only flying people and things but many actually operate a complex weapon system and fly into the most dangerous places on earth. They also have to flight plan and lead their crew unlike many Captains who take the "it's not my responsibility" attitude. When they aren't flying they do the jobs of airline equivalent safety officers, drug testers, and manage regulations. Many of my friends, when they hear i show up to an airplane an hour before my scheduled departure and just fly for 5-6 hours a day and when i land or get home I'm done for 3-4 days are incredibly jealous. I make about the same money as they do, I never have to deploy and spend half the month at home and free of work while spending the other half flying.

So don't sit here and lecture me like a child that I'm the problem with this career. I will never vote for concessions. I'll never agree to scope relief. I'm merely providing a perspective to a guy asking about my QOL. It's not bad. It's not as bad as people make it sound. Maybe you should actually work a few years to make a living and then come back and tell me that I'm an idiot for enjoying my job, making money and investing towards retirement comfortably.

Did you know a 2nd LT in the AF only makes $35k a year to fly turbine aircraft?

But an implicit part of that agreement is they have no University of Flight Training debt...

That 2nd Lt. Is also getting housing, substance allowance, and paid medical. After two years he'll be a 1st Lt. Making 46K and still have those perks.

That being said, while we pilots may feel we're worth more, we are worth what the market dictates. And right now regionals are filling classes with base rates less than 30K. Until that stops, we won't see 50, 60 a year starting pay.