This whole topic is flawed.. You cant calculate someone hired today VS 1-2 years ago... Has to do more with growth, attrition, and hiring...

This is exactly right.

Upgrade time is a pointless metric of past performance.

Exactly. <filler>

You make a good point here, no one really knows whats going to happen in the future. More than anything I think people are looking for an outlook on the situation. To make sure they have a good path for advancement.

Right. And due to the truth you stated in your first sentence... It's a fool's errand. Choose an employer based on money, location, and contractual benefits.

Most Jr. Captain on the SkyWest seniority list date of hire: 10/24/2011

25 years for Endeavor

"That's like 4x too long bro, I plan on being ready for upgrade at Delta by then"

-CFI 121 newhire

But by then Delta will be paying 175k a year bonuses just to stay.

Whyyyyde body Upgradzzzzzzzz........Bro!!!!!!

777 upgradezzzzzzzzzz !!!!1!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!

by then delta will be coming out of their 4th bankruptcy and skywest will own 50 B797-9NGERX Biplane scramjet SSTs.

What are the upgrade times on the SST? Bases? How long on reserve?

its fenced off and reserved only to the super pilots that are willing to rebuke the adage "pride comes before the fall" and let go of ALL of their dignity by... BOHICA.

That just made me laugh.

It pays $29 an hour, so I'm sure you're still in.

thank you for that. it pleases me to know that I can be funny online as well as plain funny-looking.

Just as long as they cancel the mrj orders. Scramjet sst sounds a lot shinier than sushijet anyway:D

bro stick with your original choices, don't overthink.

What makes you think that the scramjet will have pilots onboard?

Sometimes they need to deadhead pilots quickly.

Updates on Upgrade Times
 

It seems these days that there are FO's are getting hired straight to majors, meanwhile there are CA's are getting TBNT emails. Obviously upgrading isn't a bad career move and is certainly better for the pocketbook, but what do all of your various crystal balls say about the value of a quicker upgrade in the current hiring environment? A two year quicker upgrade doesn't directly equate to a two year earlier class date at a major.

That being said I've noticed the golden ticket at Horizon to getting a CJO at Alaska is being a CA for 15 minutes so...

It just depends on what your goals are really. Sure it is true that majors have been hiring FOs from regionals at an increasing rate. However if you look at the statistics for those hired over the past year at any of the 3 legacies, you will see that the overwhelming majority of them had TPIC. It isn't the golden ticket some claim it to be, but it does help to check one more box, and make you some more money at the same time.

The fact is, whether you want to go to a legacy, LCC, ULCC, or whatever from a regional, TPIC is going to make you a more attractive candidate.

GoJet is at 11 months right now I believe (if you have the 1000 hrs 121 time by then). It took me two years, which is pretty much the historical average at GoJet.

Good luck with that. You don't necessarily need to be a CA, but you have to sell your soul to the air group. At least 3 job fairs, women in aviation, volunteer at the soup kitchen, help build the gay pride parade float etc. You also had to work in training department, but they don't allow pilots to train other pilots in ground school anymore. Pretty sure this only applies to Horizon guys, i haven't heard of other regional pilots having to do this crap.

You are better off not upgrading, those with 1000 TPIC won't be hired at a LCC for fear they will leave and go the legacy.

If you have 2000 TPIC, you can't be hired at a legacy because they figure something is wrong with you since you haven't been hired yet.

This couldn't be farther from the truth. The numbers are out there for anyone to see.

I kid - I kid....

Had a QX guy in the jumpseat a few months ago who was heading to Alaska. 8 years as an FO, 6 months as a CA, SPT instructor, no recs, went to the NW job fair, applied for the first time, interviewed, hired within 3 months of the fair. Not just a line CA that applied when the window was open, but not exactly an astronaut either. Just another anecdote I know, but I've heard more stories like that recently.

It seems not so much that there are disadvantages to being at Horizon in getting hired at Alaska, rather that there just are not any advantages, which itself is surprising. Some people come here hoping to make a good impression with Alaska, but at best that goes unnoticed, at worst they see that you aren't a good employee and don't hire you even though they'll hire bad employees from other companies because they don't know they're bad employees...which I guess is a disadvantage for working at Horizon. Hmm.

lol I'm exhausted after reading that.:p

Hey, it takes more than 15 minutes... :D

This is largely urban legend.

Yeah, I need to work on my run-ons...


If my forum-lurking serves, that would be 10 flight hours for you, right? Sorry I meant 15 minutes AFTER IOE. My bad! :)

Congratulations, by the way!

Yes congrats Pete, I assume you're class will be in Jan/Feb, do you how many other Qx guys are going with you?

That's great news, I'll tell me friend that's been there 9ish years now he should upgrade soon.

What is the upgrade time at RAH currently? And is it increasing or decreasing?

A pilot currently upgrading at RAH has no bearing on the upgrade time of a pilot starting at RAH today.

With all being equal you will need 50% of the list above you to quit. Take into account other factors at a no change airline, you may see upgrade around 55-60%. However, each % below 50% means there is approximately that % above you that will keep you from moving up the captain bidding list as they upgrade.

If you need 1000 SIC and 2500 TT to upgrade, getting hired with 1500 hours will likely take you at least 1.5-2 years after your hire date for you to reach 1000 SIC hours. You will take 3-6 months after your hire date to even get a chance at starting to average 83 block hours/month(1000 block hour/year limit). Get hired with a 1000 hour restricted ATP, and you are looking at least 2-3 years.

Getting hired at a regional that is shrinking, having problems staffing and parking planes due to it, will cause you upgrade time to be longer than if you went to a regional that was stagnate in it's fleet size and is able to staff. A regional that is truly growing after you arrive and you will see a upgrade time that is quicker than if you went to a stagnate regional. There are your projected upgrade times.

I've been at PSA for two years and i wasn't awarded the most recent captain bid. We still have plenty of really senior First Officers to upgrade.

At Endeavor for 8 years now and still waiting for the left seat.

Thanks, Biggz - PSA upgrade question was coming next from me. So at least 2 years AT PRESENT.

1. Anyone at RAH can tell me what the DOH is for recent upgrades there?
2. Is fleet growing/shrinking (i'm not counting cancelled options on 170's as shrinking)?
3. Is attrition still high or slowing (likely due to new contract)
4. any speculation on the future that may impact a new hire?

Thanks- I'm hopefully getting to the end of this process and all my APC newhire questions - i appreciate all those that have taken the time to answer them. Not all info is easily searched for and things go out of date VERY quickly these days.

RAH most junior captain is a September 2011 hire I believe. If the company can attract pilots I see upgrade dropping to 2.5-2 years, if not then maybe 3-3.5. In the recent months there has been a lot of attrition. 30-55 a month are leaving. For now RAH is staying about the same size but is very understaffed. RAH needs about 300 more pilots to be properly staffed. With 30 to 50 a month leaving they need to hire about 100 a month to get back to normal staffing in 2016. If you come to RAH now your quality of life will be good for a new hire FO in most bases because there are not many reserves, some are getting lines right out of training.