Updates on Upgrade Times
 

Anyone with some insight on the state of the union for upgrades across the industry. It seems as though right when someplace gets targeted as a place for quick upgrade they become saturated then its gone.

I know some people on here will freak about me bringing up this topic, but lets wait till some useful answers get posted before I'm torn apart, because I'm sure I'm not the only one scouring all the 500 + page posts about each carrier to find answers. This forum is a great resource if people cooperate. Thanks everyone

Places such as:
- Envoy
- Compass
- PSA
- Piedmont
- TSA
- GoJet
- Mesa

I will upgrade at XJT shortly after the first manned mission to Mars.

haha thanks! hey, nasa is looking for applicants for astronauts, so maybe you can be on that mission.

I was hired at Mesa in Sept '14 and I start EJET CA in December. Hope this helps.

When it leaves or lands?

Thanks! sounds like just over a year if my math is right? But have you enjoyed your time there? did you have any previous 121 experience?

Piedmont is 1 year to the day

Are those upgrade time real? I am asking just because I have a friend working at envoy Chicago based and he's been in reserve for 14 months as today. I am really surprised that in a place you can upgrade in one year and in an other one you can get out of reserve in one year. :confused:

PSA upgrade is basically as soon as your done with training if you have 1,000 121 time already. Half of my class from earlier this year have already upgraded and a handful have moved on to LCCs and legacies. Upgrade seems to kind of bounce around based on the bid award for any given upgrade class. A couple have gone a little more senior as FOs that have been on property for a while decide to upgrade. But it's generally quick.

Yep 1 year and 3 months. I could have held CRJ CA in IAD or DFW, but I live in IAH so quality of life will be much much better. Mesa has a garage contract, but if you have good seniority or at least live in base it's manageable. I would technically make more
money starting off at Skywest, but since my upgrade is quicker I will have higher career earnings.

Let me try and get in here before the Cuj. Envoy. 2.5 upgrade. 6 year flow.

My research shows Commutair is around 18 months

Piedmont is just under a year plus you get as an added bonus a job at American Airlines if you want to wait for it. If not get your PIC time and apply to Delta, United, Southwest etc.

Expressjet (ASA) here. 7+ years and still waiting...

When it is on the return leg :D

Skywest is 4 year upgrade. However it doesn't seem to matter these days. Just as many FOs are leaving for majors as captains from what I'm seeing.

How can this be true? I know 4 year E145 FOs that are still on reserve.

Just out of curiosity is that just in the base that you want? Or first upgrade possibility in general.

Common core math.

The 2nd most junior pilot on the seniority list is a captain at PSA. Sep 28th hire

First upgrade possibility.

How the industry changes. I remember starting at a regional in Oct '07. We had DECs if you had the time. Anyway IOE complete Dec '07. Age 65 passes and I think "oh we can work 5 more years as a pilot." Reality was it meant 5 years for everyone to be stuck in current seat. Now you had RJ FOs for 5+ years. Add the 2008-2010 recession and no hiring, it went south real quick.

Now in 2015, oil has crashed, airlines printing money, and movement is phenomenal. Enjoy it, until the next eventual downturn. Truly is a cyclical industry.

you can't really count that when PSA has DEC....you're basically a captain at the bottom of the list with the FOs.

Not really... PSA was hiring DEC and upgrading guys right out of training who were hired outside the DEC program who had the required time to upgrade. That 09/28 could be either/or...

By your logic, then PSA only has one FO. What he is getting at is there are FO's senior to this guy who don't have the mins to upgrade. When they do, this guy will be on reserve forever.

Nobody forced him to upgrade. Not sure why this is viewed as a negative. At least you have the option. Look at the forest through the trees.

You can upgrade at PSA in 18 - 20 months. That's with training and then getting 1000 hours 121.


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Nvm, I re-read what he posted. Your right, although I believe I was responding to a question that wasn't even asked. And yes, Junior CAs at PSA will likely be on reserve for a few years. But that's part of what they are getting into going into this. DECs typically aren't here to stick around for long. And the CAs who upgrade quick are mostly coming from airlines where they spent 3-5+ years on reserve as an FO. So reserve at CA pay usually isn't that bad.

This is accurate for those with no prior 121 time. Probably will be closer to 24 months from DOH for me because I've taken a few months off this year.

However believe me when I say only about 50% of new hires will be ready to upgrade after only one year. Unless they are coming over with 121 time already.

You also have to assume not every FO is capable of becoming a captain with only 1000 hours of 121 time and less than 2 years experience. FOs hired without jet/transport category turbine experience might need 1500-2000+ hours before their ready to upgrade.

Envoy is currently around 8 years. It might go "down" to 5-6 years by this time next year but who the hell knows.

With the flow at 16yrs. It might go "down" to 13-11 years by this time next year.


Good Luck!

Good point. Plus some guys would rather be senior FO's and have a good schedule.


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Agree with everything you said here. Just wanted it clarified that not everyone at PSA is a captain right now. Posting for those in school that don't know any better yet;)

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Some good info on here forsure. Anyone know about GoJet or TSA? havent heard a ton about them, just curious.

Seems like AWAC and XJET are the only 2 regionals who are +4.5 years to upgrade now.

This is not accurate, there are several out there with long upgrades. AWAC, XJT (and ASA), SkyWest, Endeavor, Republic, Envoy, and Horizon.

PSA is still offering the quickest upgrade, although I do not know how much longer that will last. Even when the quick upgrade goes away, it will still be low for quite some time. Less than a year if a pilot has the rehired time and 18-24 months for someone coming in fresh.

Horizon, Skywest and Republic have dropped below 4 years. Air Wisconsin will probably drop below 4 years soon.

TSA, GoJet, Compass and Mesa all have upgrade times shorter than PSA.

The only regionals with 7+ year upgrades are Envoy, Expressjet and Endeavor and that is because those airlines have been shrinking for awhile. Envoy and Endeavor will see shorter upgrade times in the future, not so much for Expressjet unless skywest pilots decide they want a union and one list.

TSA forum is very active, so head over there.