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-   -   Circle to Land - VMC only question (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/91956-circle-land-vmc-only-question.html)

Coneydog 11-30-2015 09:41 AM


Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2018900)
A circle to land "maneuver" is not a visual approach.

Visual portion of an instrument approach. VMC doesn't apply to it. That was the point.

Coneydog 11-30-2015 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by Mythbuster (Post 2018898)
With this restriction on your type rating, you can not circle to land if the reported conditions at the airport are less than VMC (1000 ft. ceiling and 3 miles visibility). It has nothing to do with a visual approach, being able to maintain visual contact with the airport or being clear of clouds.
You can also tell if the airport is below VMC if the green/white beacon is on during daylight hours.

I don't believe the original question was referring to a restriction on a type rating...only the maneuver itself. Also, a circle to land maneuver has everything to do with remaining clear of clouds and maintaining visual contact with the runway. The whole maneuver is predicated on that.

Mythbuster 11-30-2015 09:58 AM

,
 

Originally Posted by Coneydog (Post 2018908)
I don't believe the original question was referring to a restriction on a type rating...only the maneuver itself. Also, a circle to land maneuver has everything to do with remaining clear of clouds and maintaining visual contact with the runway. The whole maneuver is predicated on that.

Then why is the title of the thread "Circle to land-VMC only"?
The first sentence from the OP talks about an interesting discussion he is having concerning this "restriction".

Mythbuster 11-30-2015 10:02 AM

Of course maintaining a visual with the runway and remaining clear of clouds are critical for a circle to land maneuver, but if you do not have reported VMC conditions and you have this restriction on your license, you can not even begin the maneuver, even if you could guarantee those things.

WestCoastFlyr 11-30-2015 10:19 AM

This thread got off track quick. To answer the original question, you do not have to have cloud clearance requirements to conduct a circling maneuver unless required by your ops specs. VMC is defined by visibility, ceiling, and as mentioned cloud clearance requirements. The only definition of cloud clearance requirements is in FAR 91.155 which covers VFR flight rules. Because you are operating under IFR in a circle to land maneuver these do not apply. Bottom line, check your ops-specs. If they say that it is only "clear of clouds" for a circle to land maneuver, this is what is intended and is legal to do.

word302 11-30-2015 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by Coneydog (Post 2018907)
Visual portion of an instrument approach. VMC doesn't apply to it. That was the point.

My comment wasn't directed at you. There were guys implying that a circle to land maneuver was in fact a visual approach. Just wanted to make clear that they are 2 different things.

Cuervo9606 11-30-2015 12:57 PM

This is a good discussion. As an Air Force pilot, here are the requirements for circling...

"If a circling approach is to be flown, the weather must be at or above both the published ceiling and visibility. Circling to land is a visual flight maneuver. When the instrument approach is completed, it is used to align the aircraft with the landing runway. After descending to circling minimum descent altitude and when the airport environment is in sight, determine if the ceiling and visibility are sufficient for performing the circling maneuver. The airport environment is considered the runways, its lights and markings, taxiways, hangars, and other buildings associated with the airport."
Air Force Manual 11-217Vol1

So as long as the WX (ceiling and vis) is at or above the mins, I can shoot the approach, and as long as I can keep the airport environment in sight, I can descend below MDA to intercept a normal glide path for landing. So the way I was taught, I don't need VMC conditions (1500/3 for USAF).

Thread post alibi...Please don't blast me for posting USAF criteria. LOL! Just wanted to contribute to the discussion.

flyingsioux 11-30-2015 01:59 PM

If your type certificate states "Circle to Land VMC only", you haven't received the required training to conduct true circle to land approaches and are therefore restricted to VMC (3 miles and 1,000 foot ceiling) conditions, unless the circle to land procedure has higher minimums posted.

MikefromMT 11-30-2015 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by WestCoastFlyr (Post 2018935)
This thread got off track quick. To answer the original question, you do not have to have cloud clearance requirements to conduct a circling maneuver unless required by your ops specs. VMC is defined by visibility, ceiling, and as mentioned cloud clearance requirements. The only definition of cloud clearance requirements is in FAR 91.155 which covers VFR flight rules. Because you are operating under IFR in a circle to land maneuver these do not apply. Bottom line, check your ops-specs. If they say that it is only "clear of clouds" for a circle to land maneuver, this is what is intended and is legal to do.

Sorry if my original question was not clear. Our discussion was spurred by the type restriction and wether you are legal to perform a circle when the ceiling is lower than 1,500 ft. I.e. ... Whether you need to be 500 below the ceiling.

West coast, thanks. This makes sense to me and I'll go search the op specs for more info.

CBreezy 11-30-2015 02:14 PM


Originally Posted by MikefromMT (Post 2019018)
Sorry if my original question was not clear. Our discussion was spurred by the type restriction and wether you are legal to perform a circle when the ceiling is lower than 1,500 ft. I.e. ... Whether you need to be 500 below the ceiling.

West coast, thanks. This makes sense to me and I'll go search the op specs for more info.

No, as with all instrument approaches, you need only remain clear of clouds. There are no VFR rules or requirements to meet when circling.


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