Why would you strike at the regional level? Just walk off the job...

A.) To maintain seniority
B.) Where else would you go that's significantly better?

Here’s a bold statement; the RLA is not the problem it is the NMB. The NMB is a government entity and as such, has a mission statement, not a goal.
The pertinent part of the NMB’s mission statement is:

“The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes arising out of the negotiation of new or revised collective bargaining agreements.”

The NMB has morphed over the years to believe it has a goal. In this regard they believe their underlying goal is a successful dispute resolution, not to mention the underlying pressure they are under to facilitate it based on an internal supposed 97% success rate of late.
Just as valid as facilitating a resolution however they are tasked with the obligation to define and recognize an impasse.
They have just as much responsibility to declare an impasse when it in fact exists, as they do to help find resolution.
They do not allow strikes, they do not allow work stoppages, and they do not allow lockouts. They do not allow anything.
They are supposed to declare an impasse when one exists within “some” reasonable time frame (see the word prompt in their mission) although lately (the last 30 yrs or so) they’ve been able to stretch it out to “denial of binding arbitration” as an excuse for not having “done their job”, as they see it.
If they see a release to self help as a failure, they have a personal problem. At that point the process has been undermined. It’s supposed to be a valid part of the process.
The Unions and the airline workers themselves should rally to insist on the original intent.
And just as an FYI; once the NMB has released to self help, there are built in delay tactics including a PEB but in the end the ONLY entity that can order a striking union under the RLA back to work is Congress, not the president.

It’s not the RLA that is the problem; the NMB over the years has been contaminated by politics and allowed through acquiescence to assume more power and control than was originally intended. It was never intended to actually infringe on workers rights only to determine the impasse was not arbitrary.
Take back you rights or believe you don’t have any, it’s up to you.
Just remember , the only tactic older than divide and conquer is to have the other side believe they have lost before the battle has begun.
Good Luck

Oh jeez, I think I better clarify where I said only Congress can order a union back to work, I meant permanently; whereas a PEB can only do it temporarily.

This. This. Some units of ALPA actually give these to you to read upon joining...or at least they used to.

That's all reasonable and I agree. The trouble is that even if you fix the NMB, the same political poisoning will eventually set back in, sadly making it a temporary fix. Repealing the RLA is a permanent solution, not that we shouldn't also strive to fix the NMB too.

"Flying the line, how not to die of boredom". Did they publish that one yet?

So many people in here worried about how things are now, calling people uninformed about the current circumstances. My desire was to dicuss alternatives to our current circumstance which includes stating our current grievances about the industry bargaining processes. Of course that might start with a discussion of how we got here in the first place (history!) but I'm hopeful that people aren't so accustomed to the current practices that they would never make a commitment to change. After all, isn't that why so many of you voted for Obama? Change? Haha....

I love this thread, it's extremely informative.

I've also noticed that those that do not work in the unions themselves don't fully understand the leverage that unions do or do not have. As said before, the RLA and NMB are the problem. We all hate the term "fly it and grieve it," but without the ability to put our foot down, we really have nothing else we can do about it. At the regional level, management will do what management wants to do. RAH is a prime example. Still having some attrition to other regionals even after the new contract due to the fact that you won't change the management perception. Doesn't matter how much you care for it and bring it back to life, a snake is still a snake and will continue to bite. If all of you really want to make a difference then read these and educate yourself. Write your senators, let them know how appealing the RLA really is and ask them to do their jobs and represent you like they are suppose to. Until then, complaining about unions at the regionals and griping on a forum wont change a thing.

Walk off the job, these things don't fly themselves, yet... Everyone just walk off the job. A strike that is not a strike.

Yes, that would be a STRIKE: a work stoppage caused by the mass refusal of employees to work.

I think he meant just up and quit. Which as simple as it sounds, is completely implausible. People have mouths to feed and loans to pay off. FOs live paycheck to paycheck for the most part. Very few can go with missing even just one paycheck. It's the same reason pilots have been voting in things when their job feels threatened. Regional pilots can't afford to miss a paycheck.

Just to be clear, in your analysis you are not differentiating between striking caused by being released into self help by NMB vs. what Allegiant tried to do and strike based on an upset of "Status Quo" which was shot down by a Federal Judge and not a NMB Mediator.

In any event, it is likely in my opinion that something very shady must have went down to get that ruling as it would likely be clear to an "ordinary person" once explained that changing bidding systems and the way schedules are awarded clearly shocks the conscience.

Not that you were directly implying this, but nobody owes pilots anything. I hope they negotiate a bundle, but to imply somehow that people deserve something is disturbing. How do you feel about Obama giving poor people cell phones for free? Absolutely no difference.

Not sure what you mean exactly. But I worked very hard to get to where I am, as well as the rest of us. IMO, we are very deserving. For that brief flight, people put their lives and the lives of their loved ones in our hands and trust us to get them to their destination safely. On top of that, I spend 60% of my life away from home and in hotels so that people may have the ability to see loved ones, visit new places, make it to emergencies, and so on. To think that pilots aren't owed anything is insane.

Another good post. But to be honest I think forums like this one are just as effective as those ALPA emails etc. This is a good place to share information and discuss ideas without remorse. A few unorganized pilots sending random letters to career politicians probably won't amount to much imho. It seems to me like a few representatives speaking on behalf of several pilots (or unions) would be a much simpler and effective way to appeal to the gov't. But I guess pilots don't already pay for that ;)

Bottom like you only deserve what you negotiate. To imply you are somehow more important than any other work group anywhere is entitlement mentality. Socialism is un-American.

Well the very reason it takes so much effort for us to be able to strike is because we are "essential" to American commerce. So we must be pretty important.

Striking is an important card in a union's negotiating. If the NMB can so easily take away our ability to strike, then what do we have to negotiate? Certainly not labor......

Very true, but our legislative reps need a voice behind them to make the point clear. It's hard for them to fight when the politicians say they've never heard complaints from anyone except the reps. We make the noise, and the reps lead the charge. Otherwise it's like sending the drummer boy into battle without the army. Each pilot needs to speak up and encourage the ones around him to speak up. If we did that more than we bashed each other's pilot groups it would be crazy the attention pilots could get on the topic of poor regional treatment.

It's not the only thing but a big part of it. Like it's been said, ALPA is not really ONE union. It's an association of separate unions. Each individual MEC decides what they want or don't want to negotiate for. As for lobbying, the bigger the association, the more influence they exert. That's what there are associations of almost everything special interest you can think of. And corporations hire K street lobbyist in order to exert their influence as well. Without ALPA, things would be way worse just because of this alone!

Agree. I think the amount of distractions and lack of unity is a problem. Which is what frustrates me about associations like ALPA, I simply don't see its purpose. Such a falsely "unified" organization might even be harmful at this point but I don't think I know nearly enough yet to say for sure..

Scary thought: If ALPA is for safety, maybe unions could unify under a different flag for things like CBAs?

I don't disagree at all.

They should. I would rather just give alpa $39 per year like I do AOPA and simply get a free hat in exchange. Save the real work for a union.

I completely agree that ALPA and company have had a positive impact, but with such a seemingly vague mission I feel they can't handle everything. Or at least haven't so far. But again, I'm just spewing ideas, I haven't exactly written a thesis on this stuff. Yet..

Seriously? Do you just make up stuff and talk out of your tailpipe much?

Semantics here, but for all intents and purposes, ALPA is an elitist association of smaller associations. A real Union acts in solidarity with other trades and most pilots are too selfish to do such. There is plenty wrong with Teamsters national, but at least they support other trades.