Upgrade Time
 

Which regional has the shortest upgrade time?

Skywest Brasilia is said to be around 6 months but i dont know for sure.

XJT has to be close to shortest....holding steady around 2 years.

Others feel free to chime in...

Pinnacle is about 2 years as well, maybe less at the moment since the mins are/ have been dropped to 1800TT and 500 in type.. plus we are hurting for capts..

Is it now official that the mins have been dropped?

as I understand it- yes, 1800 and the magic senority number is all it takes.

Does PNCL still have the PIC flight time requirement to upgrade?

When I jumpseated about a year ago the FO (Gulfstream grad) was into his third year and had the seniority to hold CA but was forced into renting a Cessna 150 a few hours every week to get up his total and PIC time...:o

Whoever it is today, odds are they won't be in a year...

I have been at pinnacle a little over a year, and my seniority is about 100 away from the last upgrade class. i also have a little over 2000 hours and 700 in the rj. so i could upgrade once i get my seniorty. so at pinnacle its about a year and a half i would say.

That wasn't a pinnacle rule, that was actually a faa ATP rule. 250 hours pic required for ATP, but they have since changed that to include sic for 121 carrier.

If they are hurting for captains, do you think they will ever go back to the off the street direct hire captains?

not right now. i just talked with one of the head guys in training and they are supposed to upgrade 15 guys every two weeks from here to forever. i thought that was a funny choice of words, but he said that they are going to be hurting for captains real soon, and they are starting now to avoid having to hire street captains. i know the pay would be nice, but it sure would suck being a street captain. you would be at the bottom of the captain seniority list for at least a couple years, while all the fo's are upgrading, you just keep moving to the back of the line. i cant imagine being reserve and having 10 days off a month for 2-3 years!!

The other issue may also be the fact that there are not many street capts on the street... A good number of the street capts are ex-independence guys, and with everyone hiring Pinnacolgan may not be the mecca for those qualified.

the upgrade mins have not dropped, they are still 3500 reducable to 3000 with 500 in type.

this is true. The mins haven't changed yet. Even with these times i am still about 100 away from a captain seniority. but i still need about 800 hours to upgrade.

At SKW, upgrade time are:

EMB- Once you have 2500 TT and 1000 121 Crew.
CRJ- Last class that ran had quite a few 18 monthers. I see that time holding firm with the new Midwest flying. We are running a CRJ upgrade class every 3-4.

Usually the RJ classes are a mix of Transition (5-10), Upgrade (20-30) and New Hire (30+). SKW can only train 70 RJ pilots at a time so these numbers are manipulated to achieve 70.

Don't you need 3000 to upgrade if your airline fly's international?

???
 

no...Where did you get that number from???

Upgrade time...
 

Last I heard Mesa was putting guys in the left seat of the Dash8 off the street...

Airline-specific upgrade requirements vary, usually around 2500 total time with some turbine time, but you don't have to get that time at the airline in question...it can come from another 121, 135 op, military, or even 91, as long as you have it. So mesa street captains are not CFI's, they have time from somewhere else.

Also the airline requirements are just that...airline requirements, not FAA requirements. As long as you meet ATP mins (1500 total time and other stuff), the airline can upgrade you.

Foreign operations (excluding Canada) require a couple extra things...
1) SIC type rating for the FO
2) The CA must meet ICAO ATP requirements, which include 1200 hours PIC...this has kept a lot of low time FO's from upgrading at some airlines. Some of them have to go rent cessnas on their days off to get their time up :eek:

RAH is 2500TT and it has been running around the 2 year mark. Most junior CA upgraded in 23 months.

No, canada only requires a type rating. that is for both captains and fo's. the only problem is with the fo's since captains get the type when they upgrade. All it took was for me to go into one of our checkairmans offices, fill out an 8710, and then i had my type. that is what canada required

Upgrades
 

Mesa is still hiring street CA's on both the 1900 and the dash. I know for a fact that several of the street CA's have been CFI's. However, they were high time CFI's. Not the typical guys with their couple hundred hours that think they are ready to fly a 777 :). I was hired as a street CA myself and have thankfully managed to make it a year with no violations but I am quickly considering jumping ship with my time to sit at another regional while I wait in line for one of those major jobs. The main problem with the quick upgrade's at Mesa on the T-props is that MANY ppl right now are getting letters in their files due to FAR violations or company violations. We are also seeing quite a few ppl bumped back to F.O. or even worse let go because of relatively minor infractions. And just to set things straight our most junior Capt's on the Jets are as follows (Current as of this week)

CRJ - IAD hired 01-12-04 Global Seniority # 997
ERJ - IAD hired 11-29-04 Global Seniority # 1174

So for those of you coming to Mesa for the quick upgrade T-prop..Yes but it's a gamble with those expensive certificates. Jet....well forget it.

Oh and disregard grammar and spellin' it after 2am :D

Can you give some specific examples on what the infractions and violations involved?

One of the guys leaned to side of caution and chose to return to SLC when a line of thunderstorms was over his destination. He was unable to reach the company on SelCall and told the ground crew he was diverting. Well they said they called dispatch and that dispatch wanted him to hold. The CA decided he wasn't comfortable with this and went to SLC. 1 week later he was returned to FO status and pay. We have several CA's with letters just for incorrectly blocking the flight time. Another words they called the block in time 5 or 10 minutes after they landed. Wrong...yes but justified?? Another CA boarded the pax and shut the door and left. Well aparently they left a pax. Gate agent supposedly sent message they were waiting on a pax. CA says no. Ground crew marshalled the CA out??Alright I know if pax stop coming and the ground crew starts marshalling, personally I'm gone. Any one that works on the little props know that each stop is like a madrush anyways. Long story short, I feel MOST of these incidents were no reason to bump someone back to FO and especially not let them go. I could post a ton of these things incidents too which is sad considering we only have about 70 CA's anyways. So in one year I have seen this many incidents within that small of a group. So you have to ask yourself "Do you feel lucky?, Well...Do you punk!" :D
No all kidding aside just becareful in your choices.

Surprised no one's mentioned it yet, but the upgrade at Great Lakes is still pretty short to the 1900. It was right around a year, but recently things have slowed a bit to about a year and a half. Still not too bad, even though just a year as an FO at Lakes is more than long enough for most.:)

All of that stuff could probably be easily corrected, so there is certainly not any reason to be punishing people. Those guys that are getting demoted should just walk out of there. Although I think you guys still have training contracts at Mesa. They can do much better as an FO somewhere else. Oh well, it's Mesa.

AWAC is over 3 years now and getting worse. :( I believe our mins are an ATP and that's it. Kinda scary!

Huh ?

Sound like you are saying that current ZW FO's do not have enough time to upgrade.. doesn't sound right

I have some friends over there and you guys have a great bunch of guys working there, but there is no way I could work there for a year before upgrade. That is mainly because of the pay. If you are willing to tuck your tail between your legs and slide into a 1900 then I would do it here first. Upgrade comes when ever you want it. Our CP writes an email about every 45 days begging ppl to upgrade....then they just hire more street CA's to cover the work.
The real problem is all those 5 and 10 minute turns though, and those are still a reality at Lakes as well. That is one thing that helps you get violated. Trying to go through a 7 or 8 page release and find problems with it and be gone in that time span is just asking for trouble.:rolleyes:

What domiciles are they operating the turboprops out of?

Well, I would think long and hard before I took a CA job at Air Midwest.....but here is the link to the company's info on here http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...-lcc/mesa.html
Also remember that due to the way the company is run they have relatively new (no experience) dispatchers. This again means a lot of mistakes to catch on a 10 minute turn.

If one decided to take a new CA job there you would be domiciled in MCI or maybe FMN for sometime because as openings in other domiciles occur they would be taken by the small amount of current FO's upgrading. If you choose to live in one of these 2 cities or within 90 minutes, life might not be that bad. otherwise....

This is an excellent point. Working at a similar BE1900 regional (GLA), it is undeniable that pilots should take this into consideration. Everytime you sign the dispatch release, you accept liability for the flight. I couldn't even began to count the times I've caught huge errors on a dispatch release.