Alaska to order 30 large RJs in 1st QTR 2016
 

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...t-quar-421088/

Alaska to order 30 large regional jets in first quarter 2016

Alaska Air Group expects to place an order for up to 30 large regional jets in the first quarter of 2016, with deliveries expected to begin in 2017.

The new aircraft will likely have about 76-seats and be operated by regional partner Horizon Air, says the Seattle-based carrier's chief financial officer Brandon Pedersen during an earnings call today.

Those aircraft would partly replace capacity lost as Horizon returns 15 leased Bombardier Q400 turboprops in 2018, he says.

“We are in the final phase of a regional jet campaign,” says Pedersen. “Our intent is for those aircraft to be flown by Horizon if their pilots and flight attendants approve changes to their collective bargaining agreements.”

“Voting is taking place now,” he says.

Executives do not say what type of aircraft Horizon is considering except that they plan to outfit them with three service classes.

That would align the new aircraft with Alaska’s Boeing 737s and its Embraer 175s operated by SkyWest Airlines.

Both of those aircraft types have economy and first class cabins but Alaska announced in December 2015 that it will begin installing premium economy seats to both types later this year.

Pedersen and other executives say more large regional aircraft will enable Alaska to continue adding profitable medium-range routes to its network.

Large regional jets have more range than the Q400s, are more comfortable for passengers and have lower trip costs on stages of more than 400 miles, Pedersen says.

“This is an area where we see plenty of room for profitable growth in 2016 and beyond,” adds Alaska's chief commercial officer Andrew Harrison.

New aircraft in the 76-seat range include current-generation models like the Bombardier CRJ900 and E175 and next-generation models like E175-E2 and Mitsubishi MRJ70.

Executives say they are not seriously considering an aircraft with 100 seats – such as Bombardier’s CS100.

“We have thought about it but right now we are moving forward with a 76-seat regional jet at Horizon,” says Pedersen.

Regional partner SkyWest already operates five E175s and eight Bombardier CRJ700s for Alaska.

However, all eight CRJ700s will be removed from service in 2016 and replaced by 10 new E175s, Alaska's fleet plan shows.

Although Alaska intends to begin operating regional jets under its Horizon division, Pedersen insists SkyWest will continue to operate some regional jets for Alaska.

What if only one of the labor groups cracks under the pressure and gives the company their discount and the other one stands their ground and votes no? Anyone really think they wouldn't renegotiate?

76-seats ?

Hmmmm...........

Sounds to me like they are setting themselves up nicely to codeshare with AA and should further consolidation occur with AA, Alaska and Horizon would be set up quite nicely. Supposedly, They and Delta are having relationship issues and so perhaps intensifying an affair with AAG is in the works ?

These planes are heading to Horizon period.

Yes of course he must add a qualifier about the FA/pilot contracts but this is a done deal in my opinion. Anything they can get above and beyond through concessions from already agreed upon contracts is simply gravy.

I agree with your reasoning. When SkyWest was only flying the 200 and EMB-120, we were told that we needed to fly the 700 at 200 rates or we couldn't get the flying. I think it was THE NEXT DAY after the vote closed when they announced the 700 flying. Rates were already set and they got everyone to buy into the fear to make even more money.

Sometimes pilots are in such a rush to "help" the company out that we end up on the short end of the stick.

Sometimes? Seems like most of the time unfortunately.

Too bad these aren't being added to mainline flying.

It was the same night. The order was announced before we woke up the next am. Pilots are typically very smart, but not very bright...

Close,
The vote closed 2 hours early and 700s were announced the next morning. Its amazing how fast they hammered out the deal........
So much for dealing aces, when you already have a deck full of jokers(SAPA).
The ultimate destination of those planes is already inked, so concessions are futile and unnecessary, unless you drink the company kool-aid. If they are going to Horizon its decided, if SKYW or elsewhere, remember, economy of scale is the final key to costs, so even if they are flown for 1/2 price by Horizon, SKYW could still do it cheaper. The next big question? Why is SKYW hiring every pilot with a pulse and having them sit at home waiting for IOE sometimes for as long as 9 weeks? Why is the ERJ so overstaffed right now?

Way too many grey area words in there, it's not a done deal yet. For one, they said "Expects" to place an order

Don't worry, Horizon pilots will vote yes to concessions and it will be our turn to be the laughing stock of the industry.

Of course, we also believed that they were perfectly okay with shrinking the airline if we didn't vote yes last time. I can just hear it on the earnings call. We went ahead an turned down flying because our pilots are so greedy. Every dime they save not paying us goes right into the execs pockets via bonuses.

Alaska to order 30 large RJs in 1st QTR 2016
 

The only parallel between the CRJ's going away and our current situation is that in both cases, the decision was made before there were ever any negotiations. The company has made some clever moves here to create animosity between the pilot group and the union. The union told them to **** off when they asked for a cut to the CRJ rates, and the company then made it look like they went away because of the union. Now they're riding that wave by getting the union to push this garbage to the pilot group because the union doesn't want to get burned at the stake by the pilots. There is no way the union can get ahead of this and look like the good guys.

As has been said tons of times here on APC - AAG will not **** over Horizon, at least not right now. If they screw Horizon over in the future it will be regardless of the outcome of this TA. We cannot compete with Skywest's unit costs, but we aren't competing with them anyway even if AAG says we are. The company has been talking WAY too much about these jets going to QX to be serious about possibly sending them to OO.

SkyWest doesnt like OPP latley.. (Other people planes). They like to buy there own, and fly them..

I was told from a reliable source that SkyWest will lease the aircraft to Horizon because the delivery slots are already scheduled to SkyWest.

It seems a forgone conclusion the jets are going to Horizon, as they should.

Why even consider concessions?

According to the logic of many around here, it goes like this:

No concessions = jets don't/maybe/probably/most likely/definitely come to Horizon (many varying opinions here)

Concessions = jets definitely come to Horizon

Too many people with low risk tolerance. I should start playing poker with these guys on overnights.

Good luck getting anyone out of their hotel rooms *slam* *click*.

Skyw has way too many firm orders to be putting resources towards aircraft they don't own.

How much/what size RJ codeshare flying does Alaska's scope allow?

Alaska scope... No such animal.

Alaska doesn't have scope.

CS100? It is large and, with no scope restrictions, permissible. Horizon could fly the CS100s across the country or even from smaller West Coast airports to Hawaii. Bombardier needs orders:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9yWF9cCVJY

The tree-huggers in the Pacific Northwest would love the lower environmental impact from the C-Series. Plus, I believe the C-Series was introduced to the Alaska/Horizon management on a recent aircraft tour that included a stop in Seattle.

Question - With Bombardier's willingness to cut deals on a proven airplane, and Horizon's deep familiarity with the manufacturer, why wouldn't Alaska's management seriously consider the C-Series while they still can (take advantage of no scope restrictions for now)? Perhaps Bombardier could swap used Q400s for a few newer CS100s as part of a bigger deal? Horizon has always been a solid Bombardier customer and now they have no scope restrictions.

If you are an Alaska/Horizon manager, this is a golden opportunity to take advantage of a no-scope opportunity (potentially gone in the next contract) with a very familiar partner. Just sayin...........

Unless Alaska plans to be absorbed by the Big 3, and at this time has no scope, why would they buy into the status quo ?

Screw the 76 seaters. The 50 seaters are now passe. Soon the 76 seaters.

Buy the new 100+seaters from CRJ, MRJ whatever and break the barrier. Change the formula and benefit everyone.

Sorry, QX, but a 100 seat jet should be flown by mainline pilots. The 737-200 in full passenger mode seated 111. Alaska flew it at the same rates as the 727/737NG/MD-80.

From a pilot's perspective, this only benefits regional pilots unable or unwilling to go to mainline. It screws all other regional and all mainline pilots. "Change the formula" give me a break.

I agree with you. However, didn't the Alaska pilots consider this in their last contract? Clearly it wasn't so critical to them since they left scope out of their agreement. "Should be" is legally protected in all other legacy contracts but Alaska's.

No scope protection sounded crazy to me when the Alaska TA passed, but now Alaska's management has a lot more flexibility when considering new aircraft types... That's the situation at Alaska/Horizon today and that's why I think aircraft like the C-Series might be considered. No scope = max flexibility.

From a management perspective, why order E175s that fit with current "legacy scope rules" at other airlines when you can order slightly bigger and better performing aircraft like the CS100 from one of your best partners before the scope window eventually closes in the next contract? With Delta adding older, discarded E190s from Air Canada in SEA, why add more similar and scope-appropriate Embraers to the mix when one of your most important partners (Bombardier) is likely ready to do a deal?

It could just be me, but when I read the announcement, I found the words "large RJs" to be a bit interesting. Nobody assumes they will be ordering E135s or CRJ-200s. Everyone already assumes something like an E175 or CR9. But the fact that no scope rules apply in this case, something like the CS100 is at least possible. Time will tell...

It's not possible. The 100 seat idea was brought up early last year and quickly shot down by AS, as it rightfully should have. Regionals have no business flying anything above 76 seats (which is bad enough already).

Regionals shouldn't exist. They are a C scale perpetuated by pilots at both the majors and the regionals. If the C series ends up at a major it is because Alaska pilots are too weak to stand up for scope and the Horizon pilots are willing to fly them.

Who knows, just dangle some more cash in front of the Alaska guys and I'm sure they will go for it. Just like how they B scaled the new hires with no more pensions.

Aside from a handful of senior regional pilots looking to close out their final working years before retirement in nicer equipment, anyone would be hard pressed to find regional pilots cheering about 100+ seat airplanes flown by regionals. The vast majority of us would be happy to see the regionals shrink and mainlines grow - why would we want to fly a 100 seater for less money and reduce our upward mobility by not seeing the mainline grow? However, if 100 seat airplanes come to Horizon, that will not be Horizons fault. Any regionals out there have scope saying they WON'T fly anything larger than 76 seats? The top priority of every mainline in contract negotiations should be job protection.

All that being said, AAG has stated very plainly that 100 seat airplanes will not come to Horizon. That potentially could have been a diversion so there is no consideration for that as we are now eliminating all jet rates at QX with this new TA (a CS100 would be Q400 + 15% under our current contract), as that could change the nature of negotiations. I doubt that to be the case though. Fact is, with no scope AAG can do what they want, so honest question: why wouldn't they send these to Horizon if they got them? Damage to codeshare relationships? Worried it would freak out Delta enough that they might try to destroy them?

I don't like it, but an 8 year contract + no more jet rates + no mainline scope. If AAG wanted to give the bird to everyone in the industry, they contractually can and seem to have the stage set. I still doubt that is what's going on, but an interesting idea. Alaska pilots need to tie this **** down.

Plus, I believe any aircraft over 76 seats would compromise Alaska's code share agreement with American due to American's scope language.

Interesting theory. I've never thought a major's scope protections would ever apply to a code share partner. Are you sure about this?

Interesting what everyone worries about. Regionals used to be nine seats and the big break was when they got 19. Mainline used to be 37. So who exactly has the balls to say a regional pilot groups can't fly and should not even be flying 76. As long as mainline sells there souls management will maintain an A scale and B scale airline and they will have whoever fly's it for less fly it. Usually there is some scope but if a major runs to the government they will throw your whole contract out to save them so the circle continues, why bother. This Horizon contract will pass the jets will come and when the larger ones show up they will dangle a carrot in front of the Alaska pilots to let someone fly the 100 seat jet and the decision will be there's because some one will fly for less than them. What I want to see is the carrot. Maybe we get 787 to mainline and let Horizon fly the little jets. Either way you as a single pilot can wine all you want the majority will vote for self preservation and management will do what is best for them.

This isn't good news for any of us,some of these guys don't get it.They need to be narrow body jets going to mainline.I don't know why some of these guys get a woodie everytime some crappie regional gets an order of big rj's.
Just means you'll be stuck there a lot longer.
Besides, they won't be able to find the numnuts to fly all of them.

Unless things have changed in the last 5 or 6 years.

I believe that Alaska ALPA has agreed to never bring up scope in negotiations....I believe it was the 09 contract....at that we also voted to end the retirement plan for new hires

APA scope language does restrict what size airplanes codeshare partners can operate. When Chautauqua first started flying the E-170, APA was fining Chautauqua several million dollars for the scope violation. Thats why we had the huge rush to start up the Republic alter-ego certificate which failed miserably at first. We then bought shuttle america to put the planes on that certificate in order to get around APA scope. BB is slicker than a TV preacher when it comes to finding loopholes.