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Regional FO Compensation Summary
Some might find this helpful.
This is APC pay rates and bonuses pulled into one place for convenience. For hourly rates, if there were different rates for different A/C Types, a blended rate was used to keep it simple. Same thing for bonuses. Every contract is different so this graph is only a starting point. Educate yourself on the different work rules and contracts which can affect your pay and QOL. Some considerations: Cancellation pay, DH pay, per diem, schedule flexibility, schedule quality, time on reserve, reserve schedules, time to upgrade, hotel quality, insurance and other benefits, commuter QOL issues, How many commuter hotels are offered (if any), Is a training contract required, etc. Be aware that recruiters are selling a quick upgrade at many regionals, when the quick upgrade is possibly over. Upgrades can only happen if they can hire enough FOs to fill the right seat behind you. And I think we all see the writing on the wall, that that is becoming more difficult for every regional by the day. So just make sure that if you do get stuck in the right seat for a while, that your bank account can withstand that. http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...sldip3ldx.jpeg http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...sw7ziv5m0.jpeg |
The Mesa numbers are wrong. Year 2 is $29, year 3 is $33.
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Those Mesa numbers are real?! ***
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Originally Posted by Xdashdriver
(Post 2086426)
The Mesa numbers are wrong. Year 2 is $29, year 3 is $33.
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Originally Posted by flyguy94
(Post 2086431)
29x75x12 is 26,100. They are depressing to look at. Why people go there is beyond me.
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Those Mesa numbers are exactly what APC lists them as, which is the disclaimer that Skyler posted.
Mesa Airlines | AirlinePilotCentral.com If you know them to be in error, please talk to the MODS to get the proper numbers updated on the page for all to benefit from.
Originally Posted by Xdashdriver
(Post 2086426)
The Mesa numbers are wrong. Year 2 is $29, year 3 is $33.
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ExpressJet and Skywest are in the wrong spots, respectively.
SKW = $36.50 And the big one, XJT gets paid block or better, Skywest does not. Hourly total compensation at XJT exceeds Skywest. |
The top chart has them listed as 22, 26 and 29 which is not what APC has.
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Originally Posted by HighFlight
(Post 2086438)
Those Mesa numbers are exactly what APC lists them as, which is the disclaimer that Skyler posted.
Mesa Airlines | AirlinePilotCentral.com If you know them to be in error, please talk to the MODS to get the proper numbers updated on the page for all to benefit from. |
RAH rates are correct on bottom chart, but don't correlate on top chart. Fwiw.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
Thank you for posting this Skyler - I was really hoping someone would make a nice easy summary of all these Reigonals on here.
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AWAC numbers are wrong.
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XJT Compensation
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This is completely wrong. You cant just look at first year pay. Mesa has captains upgrading in four months with 121 time, twelve months with none. Which means they go to 61.44 (1st year captain) or 63.32 (2nd year captain). As well as some other regionals have the same thing going for them. Which looking at the earlier that is before compass even gets out of their 1/2 guarantee pay in training. If anything Endeavor is just trying to buy people in hopes no one realizes whats going on there. Pay isnt the reason to go to any airline. If you want to go to a major get the PIC time. If you want to be a captain at a regional and retire, make sure the regionals structure can actually support a long term growth plan. Too many regionals are publicly saying they are parking planes. Look at the 10k's! That means less pilots at those regionals will be needed; they are only hiring for a training bubble, which will burst, or attrition which should also make you wonder.
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and a compass FO will not be on 3rd year FO pay
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Originally Posted by C172
(Post 2086537)
ExpressJet and Skywest are in the wrong spots, respectively.
SKW = $36.50 And the big one, XJT gets paid block or better, Skywest does not. Hourly total compensation at XJT exceeds Skywest. |
Originally Posted by zondaracer
(Post 2086658)
Skywest gets block or better.
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Originally Posted by tunes
(Post 2086661)
isn't skywest on that weird average thing and not block or better?
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Originally Posted by tunes
(Post 2086638)
and a compass FO will not be on 3rd year FO pay
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Originally Posted by zondaracer
(Post 2086662)
We get credit (based on historical credit) or block, whichever is better.
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Originally Posted by tunes
(Post 2086638)
and a compass FO will not be on 3rd year FO pay
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Originally Posted by Xdashdriver
(Post 2086553)
The top chart has them listed as 22, 26 and 29 which is not what APC has.
Thanks for you feedback. I double checked. The numbers are correct. Year 1 22 X 75 X 12 months = $19.8 + $2.5 bonus = $22.3K Year 2 29 X 75 X 12 months = $26.1K Year 3. 32 X 75 X 12 months = $28.8K |
Originally Posted by Base2Final
(Post 2086556)
RAH rates are correct on bottom chart, but don't correlate on top chart. Fwiw.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by C172
(Post 2086672)
That is not block or better, leg by leg.
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Originally Posted by flying1986
(Post 2086618)
This is completely wrong. You cant just look at first year pay. Mesa has captains upgrading in four months with 121 time, twelve months with none. Which means they go to 61.44 (1st year captain) or 63.32 (2nd year captain). As well as some other regionals have the same thing going for them. Which looking at the earlier that is before compass even gets out of their 1/2 guarantee pay in training. If anything Endeavor is just trying to buy people in hopes no one realizes whats going on there. Pay isnt the reason to go to any airline. If you want to go to a major get the PIC time. If you want to be a captain at a regional and retire, make sure the regionals structure can actually support a long term growth plan. Too many regionals are publicly saying they are parking planes. Look at the 10k's! That means less pilots at those regionals will be needed; they are only hiring for a training bubble, which will burst, or attrition which should also make you wonder.
The numbers are correct. Directly off of APC. These are FIRST OFFICER pay rates. NOT Captain pay rates. Upgrades are a constantly changing target. Please read the narrative at the top of the chart. Thanks. |
Originally Posted by Skyler02
(Post 2086680)
Mesa numbers are correct:
Thanks for you feedback. I double checked. The numbers are correct. Year 1 22 X 75 X 12 months = $19.8 + $2.5 bonus = $22.3K Year 2 29 X 75 X 12 months = $26.1K Year 3. 32 X 75 X 12 months = $28.8K |
Originally Posted by C172
(Post 2086691)
Remember also, the tax rate for bonuses is 25%
At the end of the year bonuses are taxed at the same rate as other income. It is apples to apples. |
Originally Posted by flying1986
(Post 2086618)
This is completely wrong. You cant just look at first year pay. Mesa has captains upgrading in four months with 121 time, twelve months with none. Which means they go to 61.44 (1st year captain) or 63.32 (2nd year captain). As well as some other regionals have the same thing going for them. Which looking at the earlier that is before compass even gets out of their 1/2 guarantee pay in training. If anything Endeavor is just trying to buy people in hopes no one realizes whats going on there. Pay isnt the reason to go to any airline. If you want to go to a major get the PIC time. If you want to be a captain at a regional and retire, make sure the regionals structure can actually support a long term growth plan. Too many regionals are publicly saying they are parking planes. Look at the 10k's! That means less pilots at those regionals will be needed; they are only hiring for a training bubble, which will burst, or attrition which should also make you wonder.
I always love the argument: But look how much you will make as a captain when you upgrade, and it will be a quick upgrade hopefully. I don't understand how people can defend the lowest paid regional. The only reason pay has gotten better is because pilots are becoming a hot commodity and your trying to reverse that trend by saying its ok to be the worst. Fast upgrades are coming to all regionals. Why do it for nothing. |
Originally Posted by zondaracer
(Post 2086662)
We get credit (based on historical credit) or block, whichever is better.
At xjt if you fly fast you still get scheduled block. If you fly slow you get paid YOUR actual block, independent of what everyone else flies. That's "true block or better" vs "SGU block or better". |
Thanks for taking the time and effort to put this all together.
One thing that is so hard to track that I wish we could have in there, Is the cost of the insurance. People should consider the cost of their insurance as part of their compensation package. Even if You make an upgrade quicker at one place, you are going backwards if the cost of benefits is so high, a huge percentage of your pay raise is non-existant. |
As long as the demand at the regional level remains strong with limited supply, most regional airlines will start offering a package similar to Endeavor. Since the contractual hourly rate is low, the retention or signing bonuses will be used to sweeten the pot. I think the 50K offer for 1st year pay is a good start. I don't think you can make 50K your first year at any other regional (yet). If you don't mind being gone for a while AMCI flying may offer that as well and the benefit of home basing.
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Regional FO Compensation Summary
Originally Posted by flying1986
(Post 2086618)
This is completely wrong. You cant just look at first year pay. Mesa has captains upgrading in four months with 121 time, twelve months with none.
Also, if you need health insurance for your family, plan on it consuming your ENTIRE paycheck while on first-year pay. It happened to one of my classmates, I saw his pay statements. |
Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator
(Post 2086748)
If everyone flies fast, you get less than scheduled block, regardless of how slow you fly. Everyone has to fly slow to increase the historical average in order to get better than scheduled block.
At xjt if you fly fast you still get scheduled block. If you fly slow you get paid YOUR actual block, independent of what everyone else flies. That's "true block or better" vs "SGU block or better". I think it's more of making their schedules more efficient than it otherwise would be with non-historical credit. Seems like historical block is almost always lower than scheduled block time and therefore they can cram more into a day, trip, line, month, year. It's a way of forcing them into productivity without having to always compensate them for those minutes they would otherwise get with scheduled block times. |
Originally Posted by Skyler02
(Post 2086369)
Some might find this helpful.
This is APC pay rates and bonuses pulled into one place for convenience. For hourly rates, if there were different rates for different A/C Types, a blended rate was used to keep it simple. Same thing for bonuses. Every contract is different so this graph is only a starting point. Educate yourself on the different work rules and contracts which can affect your pay and QOL. Some considerations: Cancellation pay, DH pay, per diem, schedule flexibility, schedule quality, time on reserve, reserve schedules, time to upgrade, hotel quality, insurance and other benefits, commuter QOL issues, How many commuter hotels are offered (if any), Is a training contract required, etc. Be aware that recruiters are selling a quick upgrade at many regionals, when the quick upgrade is possibly over. Upgrades can only happen if they can hire enough FOs to fill the right seat behind you. And I think we all see the writing on the wall, that that is becoming more difficult for every regional by the day. So just make sure that if you do get stuck in the right seat for a while, that your bank account can withstand that. http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...sldip3ldx.jpeg http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...sw7ziv5m0.jpeg Maybe you can add 401k matching and company contributions. |
Originally Posted by Blackwing
(Post 2087167)
The latter is not true. People in my July 2014 class who had zero 121 time are just now starting to upgrade.
Also, if you need health insurance for your family, plan on it consuming your ENTIRE paycheck while on first-year pay. It happened to one of my classmates, I saw his pay statements. |
Originally Posted by flying1986
(Post 2086618)
This is completely wrong. You cant just look at first year pay. Mesa has captains upgrading in four months with 121 time, twelve months with none. Which means they go to 61.44 (1st year captain) or 63.32 (2nd year captain). As well as some other regionals have the same thing going for them. Which looking at the earlier that is before compass even gets out of their 1/2 guarantee pay in training. If anything Endeavor is just trying to buy people in hopes no one realizes whats going on there. Pay isnt the reason to go to any airline. If you want to go to a major get the PIC time. If you want to be a captain at a regional and retire, make sure the regionals structure can actually support a long term growth plan. Too many regionals are publicly saying they are parking planes. Look at the 10k's! That means less pilots at those regionals will be needed; they are only hiring for a training bubble, which will burst, or attrition which should also make you wonder.
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There's no more sign on bonus at Gojet since the new contract passed
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Originally Posted by Skyler02
(Post 2086369)
Some might find this helpful.
This is APC pay rates and bonuses pulled into one place for convenience. For hourly rates, if there were different rates for different A/C Types, a blended rate was used to keep it simple. Same thing for bonuses. Every contract is different so this graph is only a starting point. Educate yourself on the different work rules and contracts which can affect your pay and QOL. Some considerations: Cancellation pay, DH pay, per diem, schedule flexibility, schedule quality, time on reserve, reserve schedules, time to upgrade, hotel quality, insurance and other benefits, commuter QOL issues, How many commuter hotels are offered (if any), Is a training contract required, etc. Be aware that recruiters are selling a quick upgrade at many regionals, when the quick upgrade is possibly over. Upgrades can only happen if they can hire enough FOs to fill the right seat behind you. And I think we all see the writing on the wall, that that is becoming more difficult for every regional by the day. So just make sure that if you do get stuck in the right seat for a while, that your bank account can withstand that. http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...sldip3ldx.jpeg http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...sw7ziv5m0.jpeg |
Originally Posted by 3inthegreen
(Post 2087468)
Envoy has retention bonuses for FOs at 10K per year.
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Originally Posted by Xdashdriver
(Post 2086554)
The top chart has them listed as 22, 26 and 29 which is not what APC has.
Thanks for you feedback. Again, Mesa numbers are correct. Here, I will do the math for you again: Year 1 22 X 75 X 12 months = $19.8 + $2.5 bonus = $22.3K Year 2 29 X 75 X 12 months = $26.1K Year 3. 32 X 75 X 12 months = $28.8K |
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