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iFlyRC 03-30-2016 06:36 PM


Originally Posted by prior121 (Post 2100075)
Staying in shape, knowing your BP, knowing material before an oral/checkride is hardly a gamble.

You put the odds greatly in your favor, still though, always that human element with the examiner that is outside your control. Friend of mine didn't know the wheel base of his airplane, new examiner failed him for it.

magneto 03-31-2016 11:17 AM

along the lines of the OP, if you have been out of 121 flying for a long time, I think it would not be a good idea to take a DEC in anything. Even a plane you flew 10 years ago. I remember back when I upgraded at a regional. I had a lot of time in the plane as an FO, I upgraded in the same plane in the same domicile and hub system. Flying the plane was the easy part, everything was familiar. But being the PIC , especially at a regional puts everything on you. Where I worked, the dispatchers were not experienced, the station managers, rampers, etc were mostly college kids working part time. You had to watch everything, because when the s*&^ hits the fans, it all comes down on the CA. I had dispatcher try to send me out with one way fuel, to and airport with no fuel!!. Give me a release to a closed airport, etc.
before 911 I trained at a major where they put new hires with CAs that were upgrading to the plane. Even though many of these guys never flew an Airbus I could see training was easier for them because all the company procedures and op specs etc, where second nature to them, where as it was all new to me.
We all know regional training is minimal at best. I think it would be much less stressful if you started out as an FO, learned the airplane, the company procedures and the system they fly in,etc, get a few months under you belt and then upgrade.

FirstClass 03-31-2016 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by iFlyRC (Post 2100137)
You put the odds greatly in your favor, still though, always that human element with the examiner that is outside your control. Friend of mine didn't know the wheel base of his airplane, new examiner failed him for it.

Oh please, I'm sure there were other reasons.

FlierOnTheWall 03-31-2016 11:29 AM


Originally Posted by magneto (Post 2100516)
along the lines of the OP, if you have been out of 121 flying for a long time, I think it would not be a good idea to take a DEC in anything. Even a plane you flew 10 years ago. I remember back when I upgraded at a regional. I had a lot of time in the plane as an FO, I upgraded in the same plane in the same domicile and hub system. Flying the plane was the easy part, everything was familiar. But being the PIC , especially at a regional puts everything on you. Where I worked, the dispatchers were not experienced, the station managers, rampers, etc were mostly college kids working part time. You had to watch everything, because when the s*&^ hits the fans, it all comes down on the CA. I had dispatcher try to send me out with one way fuel, to and airport with no fuel!!. Give me a release to a closed airport, etc.
before 911 I trained at a major where they put new hires with CAs that were upgrading to the plane. Even though many of these guys never flew an Airbus I could see training was easier for them because all the company procedures and op specs etc, where second nature to them, where as it was all new to me.
We all know regional training is minimal at best. I think it would be much less stressful if you started out as an FO, learned the airplane, the company procedures and the system they fly in,etc, get a few months under you belt and then upgrade.

Thoughtful post. Thanks.

FlierOnTheWall 03-31-2016 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by iFlyRC (Post 2100137)
You put the odds greatly in your favor, still though, always that human element with the examiner that is outside your control. Friend of mine didn't know the wheel base of his airplane, new examiner failed him for it.

Nonsense........

Celeste 03-31-2016 12:11 PM

I'm at TSA, and overall I think flying with the CQFO's isn't a big deal. Most of them have been really good pilots, and the only real weakness I've personally encountered was that some were not 100% comfortable with the left seat because of only flying ~20% of the time as a captain. I don't think the seat switching is a good idea, personally. However, that is what our contract allows, and we aren't the only carrier that does it. But I have to imagine, that it makes things harder for the CQs that have all come from other airlines, and especially those from another airframe.

With that being said, the two worst captains I've flown with here by far were quick upgrades (7 or 8 month upgrades). I believe both of these pilots for whatever reason didn't qualify for the CQFO program. They flew a couple hundred hours at most as an FO in the 145 and then somehow passed upgrade and captian IOE. Terrible airmanship and complete lack of basic knowledge and common sense with both....

Just my 2c.

FlierOnTheWall 03-31-2016 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by Celeste (Post 2100554)
I'm at TSA, and overall I think flying with the CQFO's isn't a big deal. Most of them have been really good pilots, and the only real weakness I've personally encountered was that some were not 100% comfortable with the left seat because of only flying ~20% of the time as a captain. I don't think the seat switching is a good idea, personally. However, that is what our contract allows, and we aren't the only carrier that does it. But I have to imagine, that it makes things harder for the CQs that have all come from other airlines, and especially those from another airframe.

With that being said, the two worst captains I've flown with here by far were quick upgrades (7 or 8 month upgrades). I believe both of these pilots for whatever reason didn't qualify for the CQFO program. They flew a couple hundred hours at most as an FO in the 145 and then somehow passed upgrade and captian IOE. Terrible airmanship and complete lack of basic knowledge and common sense with both....

Just my 2c.

Interesting. I assume the 7 month upgrades had 121 time prior to coming on board? If so, you'd think 7 months as an FO would be enough experience to upgrade on top of what she came in with.

I also wonder since the "pilot shortage," regionals have become much less picky in who they hire which is now (a year or two later) resulting in more upgrade failures and/or career FOs.

Celeste 03-31-2016 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by FlierOnTheWall (Post 2100561)
Interesting. I assume the 7 month upgrades had 121 time prior to coming on board? If so, you'd think 7 months as an FO would be enough experience to upgrade on top of what she came in with.

I also wonder since the "pilot shortage," regionals have become much less picky in who they hire which is now (a year or two later) resulting in more upgrade failures and/or career FOs.

The two captains I'm referring to weren't made CQFO upon hire, one wasn't current, and the other I'm not sure (I can only speculate that there was something sketchy in his background that the company wouldn't allow him to be a CQFO at the time he was hired).

Like I said out of all the CQFOS I flew with, they were all well qualified and decent pilots imho.

727574drvr 04-01-2016 11:34 AM


Originally Posted by iFlyRC (Post 2100137)
You put the odds greatly in your favor, still though, always that human element with the examiner that is outside your control. Friend of mine didn't know the wheel base of his airplane, new examiner failed him for it.

I know the turning radius of the Boeings I have flown (727, 757, 747), but who cares about the wheel base. Not really talked about; maybe if your talking footprint...


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