We've all been conditioned to think that Only Alpa can solve all of our problems, but I think we are all beginning to wake up and figure out that Alpa was the source of all of our problems all along.

I am old and have been retired now for quite awhile.
I have been a player in this industry for over 50 years.
You sir, enjoy a unique position in that time.
I don't believe I have experienced too many individuals who are more obtuse or oblivious than yourself.
Either that or you're actually like 10 yrs old and have nothing else to do while sitting in your room on "time out".

Do you always do as you're told?

I totally agree that ALPA has screwed us more times than I can count. It seems they are never looking out for the RJ drivers, and don't hesitate to sell us down the river. They let this happen in their own backyard. Hopefully ALPA and mainline pilots are finally seeing that was a mistake, but I digress...

However, not standing with ALPA with this NAI proposal just to go against ALPA, is akin to cutting off our nose to spite our face. Most of us are looking to move on, he!1, I think almost all of us would rather be flying a 175 or 190 at mainline that flying at whatever $h!**y regional we are at. Many of us want a chance to fly the heavy international flying some day, this is a direct threat to that flying, and expansion at mainline. Even if you consider yourself a lifer at your regional, this new 'pilot shortage' in the US is the only thing that has broken the long-time streak of concessionary contracts and brought a wave of better pay/work rules/QOL to new regional contracts (and mainline). This is also in direct threat of Southwest's rumored plans to expand farther into South America and Europe. I highly doubt the Southwest model would be competitive against NAI.

This isn't a mainline vs regional issue. This isn't UAL/Delta ALPA vs Regional carrier ALPA. This is about protecting American jobs, US companies, tax revenue in the United States. Just look at how trade agreements have decimated other industries in this country... Not to mention flag of convenience in the maritime industry. If NAI gets through all pilots in the United States lose.

It's important to care. When your bored in the hotel room, please take the 5 minutes to write your congressman. Urge your parents, significant other, etc, to do the same. https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials

For the "I'll just go get a job at NAI" crowd: not all of us want to do the expat thing. If I did, I'd be at Emirates right now.

And just look at how many US pilots that are doing expat flying are trying so hard to come back and fly for a US major airline. Obviously these foreign carriers aren't all unicorns and rainbows....

The "flow" at PSA is 20 years to American right now. This career is designed so one can only plan more than a year in advance. I'll take the opportunities as they present themselves.

So, you are mad at ALPA for hosing the regionals but took a job at an airline that undercut a sister carrier for jets? You are literally part of the problem but are blaming everyone but yourself for voting for the race to the bottom.

Envoy caved 4 times in a row. Not sure where you are going with this. If they would have held the line from the start they wouldn't be in this mess.

How old are you? I'm guessing you are close to or over 50? Then I can see your apathy on this issue. If you want a job at a major airline there is no reason to not back this movement. Many of us still hope to have a career in this industry. A job at a major airline is the path to that career. NAI has a potential to put a serious dent in major airline hiring, if you want to fly around on your little RJ for 15 more yours then don't support this fight. Those of us who want more will have to look past the failings of ALPA for long term benefit. If you don't want to work for an ALPA carrier there are plenty of non-ALPA jobs.

Then do your part and fight the system and don't work at an ALPA carrier. You'll show them...

NAI is a done deal.

Finally we're in a position where us pilots are making gains, and you don't like that? Fine. I wouldn't want to wait 20 years either... I guess you don't mind squashing your chances at getting picked up at Delta, Southwest or United in the next few years while you want for PSA's gimmick of a flow.

This shouldn't surprise me, PSA isn't exactly a shining example of standing up for the industry....

I'm not a good fit for Delta, their pilots are a little to prissy for my liking.

United is my second to last choice, American is my dead last choice.

My number one choice right now is NAI (if they hire and domicile in the US) followed by an LCC.

Southwest is also off the table, it'll take far to long to upgrade, maybe never upgrade.

I guess to each his own...

I was under the impression that pilots were going to be hired out of Asia and based out of Thailand to make their business model work. Enjoy that commute.

If they do end up domiciling in the US, enjoy paying exorbitant amounts of tax as a 1099 contract employee while getting paid less to fly the same equipment than all of these companies you dislike so much. And hopefully you don't have any weird medical things that DQ you from a JAA medical that the FAA doesn't even give a $h** about.

Maybe he was remembering this gem.

Pot. Meet kettle. Maybe you're not part of the problem directly, but you definitely haven't helped things.

Billions of dollars are at play, NAI is going to happen

Well said, Sir. It is amusing to listen to the whiners from our side of the fence.

That'll learn 'em.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're SWA's, UAL's, DAL's and AA's last choice either. What you meant to say:

"My ONLY choice is NAI."

So if you have been in the airline industry for 50 years, does that mean you were part of this entire race to the bottom? Being part of the B-scale then us here in the regional C-scale. So NAI is doing the exact same thing, where was ALPA back then? I am just wondering so fight this because it hurts the big boys, but bury us when it makes you more money. If you have never worked in the regionals that you set up to screw anyone behind you, I have to say you don't have much of an input that the regional guys are going to listen to. Living on food stamps after a very large loan, and being lied to by the industry that you are now stuck in. I am ok, as I am in a better position to bear this than most. But yeah, you are not going to get much sympathy on the regional forums over this.

So that'd be over 50 years now (for me).
And Yes, I guess that means I've been a part of it.
I (we) never intended the industry to evolve in this manner.
Deregulation took us workin' stiffs by surprise.
It was touted as the panacea by our government and "we" had no reason to doubt them at the time because so few of us could really envision an airline industry that had to be also a "successful business" let alone a profitable one.
It was not part of our knowledge base.
What has transpired since is no less than a complete dysfunctional catastrophe.
Deregulation was full of ideals and promises; a veritable fantasy land of airlines and airplanes and routes to everywhere for everybody.
All it has ever truly done is leave a path of destruction in its wake that has been the final resting place of airlines and employees and service.
In other words the industry never had a chance after that; so you can delve in to all the nooks and cranny's that have surfaced since for some blame but you're not digging deep enough.
But Oh Yeh, we did get Southwest Airlines out of the deal, so I guess that makes everything alright.

How about we just let NAI fly and we can all grieve it after the fact. Isn't that the ALPA way?

No. That's the regulatory way.

That's sounds very appropriate for alpa, it's right in their wheelhouse.

Again. That's regulatory. Google "obey now, grieve later." ALPA didn't invent it.

Alpa supports it, I can guarantee you.

You guys aren't actually the real questions here...

Whats starting pay and what bases do yall think theyll start up??

They have to. Just line ALPA supports FAR 121/117. It's a Federal Regulation. And repealing the RLA could be way more disastrous for labor than you can imagine especially in an anti-labor society.

I know you think you know it all because you went to some garbage aviation "university" but you are clueless

Outsider,

I respect that, and I had not really thought of it in those terms. In short I think there is a bigger systemic problem in our line of work. We have been pitted against each other like gladiators. But once they need to address the regional employees with as much or more vigor that this NAI nonsense.

I will leave it too cooler heads to prevail, but a lot of us are stuck here wondering if we will ever see the light at the end of the tunnel that has been touted to us so often.

Starting pay from the FO I talked ton in CPH was around 90k and they have a JFK and MAI dorm I do believe. Correct me if I am wrong, my memory of the convo maybe mistaken.

What's the alternative?

Each line pilot makes a snap judgement to an alleged contract violation and refuses to fly that flight/trip.

Said pilot is fired by company.

Union goes through grievance process to get wrongfully pilot reinstated, (process takes 1week, 1month, 1 yr, 1 decade?)

Pilot tries to survive in the interim not knowing how long the process will take.

That whole solution doesn't sound grand, so even at the Majors, Union advice (ALPA, SWAPA, APA, etc) is unless you are being told to break the law, you should fly the dispute and let the union fight for you after the fact. At a major you have 13,000 pilots with 12,994 interpretations of any one section of the contract.

If this is a serious question, it's idiots like you and others alike in this thread that actually support this that are the problem with this industry today. Get your head out of your ass. There was a time when not every idiot with a commercial certificate got hired. Regional minimums were 2500TT+ without being required to be so. Now everyone thinks they should be in the left seat of a heavy a couple years after their first solo.

Approval of NAI has no benefit to any US pilot.

So out of curiosity, I dug around for NAI pay. What I could find was $90 k starting and captains topping out at $160k. Starting pay doesn't seem that bad, but virtually no health insurance, retirement, etc. One place said schedules were 5 on 3 off, another said 5 on 4 off. Either way, not tons better than my crappy regional schedule. The only upside is that I read somewhere about 5-6 weeks of vacation. Also, keep in mind these pay rates are for a 787... Not a narrow body airbus or 73. Also, lots of forums with European pilots decrying how bad the work rules are at nai. I can only imagine it's like flying for a typical us regional, but in a 787.

Right now Bangkok is the only base.

I honestly think almost all pilots would be better at a major, lcc, or even as a senior RJ captain...

I make more living in base ( less than 2 hours from call to departure if scheduling is willing to pay for the promptness ) for a regional as a reserve on a flippin CRJ. This outfit will get my resume about the same time Allegiant does....Actually, after.. I'd rather stay domestic if I have to for that crap pay.

You are so out of touch it's sickening. I'm sure a few things at the major come up every now and then I get it. I'm talking about at the regional sewer where contract is violated blatantly and out in the open 100 times a day. The regional keeps the union so busy with grievances there is no time to focus on anything else. It's a game.

I went to the University of Suckme.

Burn. Did you graduate Cranium in Anusum with a BS in throwing tantrums?

This has been easily the most entertaining thread I've read. Thanks First Class for the entertainment. Btw, you put up a hell of a fight against these humps.

If you wanna go the Ex-Pat route, EK and NAI are two of the worst choice you could make. Some of the worst pay and work rules out there. There are much better Ex-Pat gigs and they are all hurting for pilots.

If they open pilots bases in the US (like they did for Flight Attendants??) then I don't necessarily consider it expat.

If you weren’t such an idiot, you’d understand why you’re wrong about everything.

____

Troll.