Isn't the 175E2 just as big and heavier than the MRJ90? What's the scope solution for them?

Because that worked well for Expressjet

Because that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!

Actually, it kept us in business.

I'm not saying it made you broke. If it was so lucrative and successful, the company would have stopped being FFD and done that.

I don't think their is one yet.

As much as I hate it, relaxing scope (especially if it's only weight) isn't out of the realm of possibility. Afterall, I'd rather be flying an MRJ90, E2, etc at United or Delta than flying one at Trans States. Though as someone else pointed out, most of the pilots at the majors now are still the same the ones who sold out on scope in the past. A lot of them came up through the military, and really have no idea what kind of a mess a civilian aviation career is, and a lot of others were lucky to get on with the majors before the lost decade and really haven't seen how bad things have gotten first hand. If there's good money in it for them they will cave on mtow scope in a heartbeat.

I disagree. The guys that actively sold scope in the 90s are a huge minority at the majors now. At United, at least 80% felt the effects of the scope sale in a big and very negative way. I think it is very unlikely that you'll see any changes to scope going forward.

My take anyway...

Scott

More like these guys:

Independence Air to discontinue flights - Business - US business - Aviation | NBC News

I just find it interesting that there's a lot of talk about MRJ90 scope when the 175E2 supposedly weighs more. MRJ90 small version is 87000 and 175E2 is about 98000 but I'm not sure if that will end up being the ultimate MAGTOW. I should probably clarify by saying "scope solution" not necessarily being a good thing for everyone. Of course if these things are flown by mainline then there's that many more jobs for us. I do think that weight probably has a little less stigma associated with it than seats. That being said, if the carrot is being enough, they'll get the votes for it. It will be interesting to see what comes out of Delta as far as a contract is concerned with scope. They're the first up and likely to set the tone for the other two carriers. I just hope they don't give up more planes for more 50 seaters going away. In the long term, I think it's the majors desire to get rid of the 50 seaters anyway (with a few niche exceptions). So I would hate for pilots to be giving something up (more large RJs) for something that they want to do anyway.

I would be EXTREMELY surprised if delta sold any scope in their new TA. The pilots of this generation know how badly they can be burned by relaxing scope and (hopefully) they hold the line on that issue.

Agreed, I was in error.

As I said, Mitsubishi is a major parts supplier for Boeing, including the wing for the 787, so they are not total virgins in airline construction.

Expressjet Branded flying was nothing more than Jim Ream giving continental the middle finger for pulling the planes. It did save jobs, but it didn't keep them in business.

I just don't understand why these manufacturers would build jets that are essentially unsellable in the US due to scope. They're too small for mainline to bother picking up, and it's a helluva risk hoping regionals will get scope relaxed. Didn't happen at American, didn't happen at United, and it's not on the table at Delta. The planning departments at Embraer and Mitsubishi should be fired. Would it really be so hard to bring the weight down a little instead of risking tens of billions? Stupid.

I agree. At least the Mrj had a smaller variant that could be on easy replacement for the crj7. Not sure what the game plan for the e2 will be.

Don't forget the Bombardier C series. Only reasonable explanation is that these airplanes are really aimed at the Asian, and European markets.

They dun effed up, basically. From the article I posted on page 4
This is not a new issue for the MRJ, which has struggled with the scope clause restriction almost since the program’s launch (Aviation Daily, June 24, 2013). But Yamagami said the company is hopeful that U.S. airlines will relax some restrictions when pilot contracts become amendable. “The unions are sticking [to] these restrictions,” he said. “Without showing how good our aircraft is, management [at airlines] will not challenge this point.”

And

“It has been 50 years since Japan developed a [commercial air transport] aircraft,” he said. “We underestimated the certification process, and we now know we needed more people to prepare verification and validation instead of just engineers.” The issue was not just with international bodies, such as the FAA and European Aviation Safety Agency. “We had the same challenge with our regulatory authority, the Japan Civil Aviation Bureau, which had more experience certifying helicopters but not much in certifying transport aircraft,” he said.

The airplanes have a huge market potential, imo. This only exemplifies how addicted to cheap contract lift airline CEOs are. But I didn't go to Oxbridge.

2019? Tsa won't be around by then mostly due to having no more pilots.

But we can always count on having you around! :p

https://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/20...entry-service/

As Bombardier and Embraer concentrate their efforts on the higher end of the regional jet market, Japan’s regional jet — the 76-88 seat Mitsubishi MRJ — may find itself able to scoop up the lower end of the RJ demand. With a 76 seat capacity for the MRJ70, and 88 seats on the MRJ90, based on 31” seat pitch, these smaller aircraft may well fit into a niche defined partly by the scope clauses in US mainline carriers’ pilot contracts, and partly by new markets the efficient jetliner is able to create.

There is some potential to mop up this end of the market given that Embraer and Bombardier are both moving towards larger aircraft. Mitsubishi characterises the MRJ70 as the “only next-generation 70 seat regional jet”, the MRJ90 as a “feeder operation” and “market opener”, and the MRJ100X — which MRJ calls “planned” — as having the “best economics in 100 seat market”.

Mitsubishi’s market forecast sees 5,137 aircraft required in the next twenty years, the company reported last week at the Farnborough Air Show, with nearly 1,900 of those in North America making up 36% of the market, and almost 800 in Europe making a further 16%. China and the rest of the Asia Pacific market each make up 12% of the market with over 600 aircraft each.

AA to purchase MRJs for Piedmont!! You heard it here first! ;)

I'm amazed people publish this stuff. The 70 has a 76 seat capacity with a single class configuration. Since when were mainline carriers not interested in dual class configurations with economy plus seating? I've said it before that this makes a possible replacement for the CRJ7 but it doesn't fit as perfectly into the scope model as it seems.

Given that these planes make trips of under an hour, most of the time, is first class really necessary? You go up and down and are there before you know it.

Many of our passengers don't just fly that one segment. The majority of them are connecting through the hub to other destinations. They purchase a first class or business class seat for the entire trip. Having an actual first class option on the regional jet increases the perceived value of the fare and creates a better passenger experience.

To follow along with this statement, these RJs will not be doing only 1hour flights. Hell I fly 2-3hr segments in a 50 seat RJ with no first class. The MRJ will be doing some very long flights. Why? Because it will not be flying into the bum ******* cities with no gates that are typically associated with shorter hauls. On the other hand, airlines do some dumb stuff, so we will have to see :cool:

This... could be bad.

Skywest Extends CRJ Support Amid MRJ Uncertainty | MRO content from Aviation Week

US regional operator Skywest and its subsidiary ExpressJet have extended a heavy maintenance deal with Bombardier Services for an additional 10 years. While good news for Bombardier, the deal may be another nail in the coffin for Skywest’s order for the Mitsubishi Regional Jet (MRJ).

Skywest ordered 100 MRJ90s in 2012, but doubts have persisted about whether scope clause agreements can be adjusted to accept the aircraft, which at a maximum take-off weight of 39,600kg is a fraction over the limits set for regional aircraft pilots in the US.

While Skywest has never stated how many of its 433 Bombardier CRJ aircraft – comprising 234 CRJ200s, 135 CRJ700s and 64 CRJ900s – the MRJ order would replace, its new maintenance deal with Bombardier covers the entire Skywest and ExpressJet CRJ fleet.

“Bombardier’s CRJ Series airliners continue to be essential to our two airlines’ fleets and have helped our company become one of the largest regional jet operators in the world,” said Wade Steel, CCO, SkyWest.

Heavy checks can be performed at any of Bombardier’s maintenance facilities in the US, including Tucson Air Center, West Virginia Air Center and Macon Air Center.

Skywest was originally due to begin receiving the MRJ from 2017, but earlier this year its chief executive conceded that it wouldn’t be able to do so until scope clause contracts at partner carriers were altered.

This fact could also prove a roadblock for Skywest’s order for 100 E175-E2 regional jets, a model that is also heavier than scope clauses at major carriers such as United and Delta allow.

Both Skywest and Trans State Holdings, another US customer for the MRJ and E2, hope that the next round of labour talks brings scope clause relief – a hope that was dashed in Delta’s last negotiations in 2015.

Fortunately for Mitsubishi, which has delayed first delivery of the aircraft until mid-2018, this means that its US customers probably welcome missed deadlines in the aircraft program.

Um...bad for whom? This sounds like great news for those of us that would like to see an end to the "regional" abomination. Or would you like to see hundreds more of these mainline aircraft flown by regionals?

Like the article says, bad for Mitsubishi. Maybe OO is just going to stick with the CRJ and give up on the MRJ and this is a sign of that. Hope not.

I think they are quite happy with the product and service they are receiving from Embraer.

Yeah. Sounds like great news to me.

The MRJ 90 does. The 70 doesn't but it's another year or more down the road.