Mrj 70/90
 

Any of our brethren over at Skywest or Trans States have any idea or speculation as to what's going to go down with the MRJ orders. It's highly doubtful that mainline pilots will relax scope and the deliveries are set to start in the next couple of years. I think personally they should be flown by mainline, the less jumbo RJ's the better. Thoughts?

http://atwonline.com/blog/will-scope-clause-issue-muddle-mitsubishi-regional-jet-s-service-entry

Sell the orders to mainline?
Mgt hopes and preys scope is relaxed to allow larger aircraft in the coming years? Hopefully that's just a far-fetched pipe dream that will never come to fruition for all our sakes
Operate them independently?
Who the heck really knows. I don't even think our mgt nor TSA's really do either.

The Embraer 175-E2 (Why not E-275?) will also face weight/scope issues.
Skywest and TSH have a fair few on order too.

Hopefully these along with the MRJs will be the first 76-90 seat aircraft flying around without "Express," "Connection" or "Eagle" next to the titles.

Nobody knows what will happen to the MRJ. Mitsubishi's crowning achievement was the 1999 mitsubishi eclipse. Right now, the MRJ 90's getting certified without the wings falling off sometime this decade seems like a dubious prospect.

TSH has the option of turning their order into 70s. (I've also heard the same about turning E2's into 175 orders) So that's a backup plan to the scope issue. Also, they can sell or lease the aircraft or sell the delivery slots to mainline. And while I would hope relaxing scope wouldn't happen in this climate, money is king, and the major airline pilots wouldn't hesitate to sell us farther down the river for the right price.

Will sushi be served on board?

He asks the important questions in life lol

There's only a few things that can happen with the MRJ90. The big three can relax the weight restriction on scope or the regionals can convert the orders to the MRJ70 (replacing older CRJ7s). Can the MAGTOW be certified differently (lower) in the US? I can't answer that question and am unsure if they would require new testing. There's absolutely no appetite at mainline for relaxing scope as far as overall additional airplanes or relaxing the 76 seat number. However, I could see them relaxing the MAGTOW number slightly if the carrot was big enough. The other question is how does the scope choke evolve over the next contracts (starting with Delta). Do they allow more 76 seats in exchange for further reducing smaller jets? If they hold on the large RJ 76 seat jet limitation, the smaller MRJ70 may look more attractive. I don't think the MRJ90 is going to be a good fit at any mainline carrier. I think the new E190 or the small CS would work better.

The same questions apply to the E175E2 which on paper is heavier than the MRJ90 I believe.

Even if scope wasn't an issue at all, why would a regional want to move outside of the ERJ/CRJ paradigm? I believe it is Trans States that has them on order, what was the thinking behind that move?

And Skywest. They are pretty formidable. And it has everything to do with fuel savings since the MRJ and I believe E2 will have geared turbofans.

WW2 Zero was pretty darn good. Pretty sure it was built by Mitsubishi along with many other aircraft.

Engineers behind the Zero are all deceased now. People are what make a company, and theirs has very little experience developing transport jets.
But with billions on the line with the success of the project, I think the deliveries happen.
Compass flys E175s with MTOW of 89k lbs. I'm sure if the weight of the MRJ9 isn't fixable, a clause will be agreed to for the specific type, still limiting it to 76 seats. Some agreement to parking more 50 seaters or replacing old 70/76 seaters. If all else fails, convert to MRJ7s to replace old CRJ7s, fly routes commonly done by 50 seaters.

The Japanese do not tolerate failure.

Who is Compass flying the 89k E175's for?

They are grandfathered in for Delta via the NWA merger.

Alberts said pilot unions should understand that the MRJ90’s weight is a function of new technology that will bring increased efficiencies to regional flying and the aircraft is “not a threat to the US pilot community.”

-I disagree.

Completely agree with you on that point Al. Every quote in the article by that Mistubishi rep was out in left field. I pray that mainline pilots don't relax scope. Also IIRC the MRJ90 is only over the max allowable weight by about a 1,000 Lbs. no one at the company thought to make the MGTOW a 1,000 lbs lighter.....

I hope they get them but I don't think mainline wants to fly RJs, look at AA, they're dumping their E190s by 2018.

Where are all these 100+ MRJ orders going to go? They'll workout a deal where they'll trade the weight limit for the amount of seats, everybody wins.

I think the C-Series will leave these dead in the water.

We (pilots) do not want to dump the 190. This is a management decision. Something has to replace the flying though. The 319 is used for this flying as well. We don't retire them until the end of 2019 so I hope we see a replacement at mainline by then. I would think by now we have learned our lesson with scope.

OK, so the zero gave us a pretty good run for our money in WW2. But post WW2 you don't hear much about mitsubishi aircraft other than a lot of MU-2 crashes. Maybe it's unfair that the MU-2 got a bad wrap, but the thing is a death trap when pilots are flying it without special training and currency requirements that other small turbo props simply do not have. The MRJ is the first jet, and fist plane in decades.

We would all hope. The fact remains that a majority of the voters are the same exact people that voted for scope concessions in the past. And a majority of pilots haven't worked for the 'modern' regionals... They either came up through the traditional tprop commuters, or came from the military and have never touched an RJ in their life, and do not know how vastly different regional carriers are from their own airline. In the past these people sold us down river, and I don't see them standing up for the industry when a carrot benefiting them financially is being dangled in front of them. That carrot may need to be bigger than it was in the past, but their votes have been bought in the past, and they can be bought again.

The people over at Skywest already think they're "mainline" so I doubt they think scope will affect them

Mainline doesn't have a choice. There won't be enough Pilot's to fly these at the regional level even with scope relief.

Some indeed do, but that's more of a pride thing.
SkyWest = A regional airline in my eyes as it does for most who work here. That doesn't mean I'm not happy with the time I've spent here, but it is the reality.

I am based at MSP for 9E, 1 in 20 SkyWest pilots will look you in the eye
and nod back. Even mainline pilots are closer to 1/2.
I see it as insecurity or immaturity certainly not pride.

This sounds completely scientific. Give me a break.

Yes the inevitable passing of the pilots. That awkward moment when you turn into a worried wreck, will he be cool, well he look the other way? Should I change my walk path, I mean I'm nice but I don't feel like saying hi right now. Oh nooo here he comes ohhhhhh

Give us a break man. Who cares???

Relax MR Czervik we will not get them. And you will get your Airbus class soon enough. Don't worry...

you missed the point. this isn't a "us vs. you" thing. we want jobs here for everyone. small narrowbody is a big fight to get the jobs here.

I saw all the locked troll jb22 threads you replied to today about "mainline".
You hate it. Haha.

Yea sure mainline guys not pulling the ladder from underneath them. That will be the day. There's about 0 care for the regional guys, from national and down.

Wouldn't us pulling the ladder up be taking raises here and letting the 190 types go to the regionals?

Yes, it would. The big issue though is now NAI. Years of not caring what happened to pilots outside the legacy bubble has created a precedence that no one gives a damn about the labor movement, and will allow for flag of convenience to propagate throughout the USA. Some of these regionals left out in the cold, and with LCC's, will partner with these carriers for massive growth. It would not surprise me if Wall Street did an LBO on one of the big three to piece it off to a larger growth potential carrier like an international LCC. All it takes is one massive 200+ widebody order from Boeing, and us USA work rule pilots will be out on the street, and our government won't give a damn.

Scope on the top and bottom. NAI is a huge threat. I would love nothing more than to see the big three go after NAI.

The short answer is they are waiting patiently.

SkyWest, Trans States continue waiting out MRJ delays | Airframes content from ATWOnline

Mitsubishi effed up. They built the plane, THEN worried about the scope clauses. I guess they figured that problem would be solved by the time they got the plane finished.

Mitsubishi Aircraft CEO Hopes Airlines Will Relax Some Restrictions | MRO content from Aviation Week

SkyWest has 100 orders plus 100 options, so it seems to me this is their CRJ replacement. The planes are approaching 20 years, I read somewhere. So it's time. Trans has 50 on order.

I've followed the MRJ with interest because a) I'm a sucker for an underdog and b) I'm also a Japanophile and it's great to see them making planes. Japanese quality is rarely ever questioned, even if Mitsubishi is learning as it goes since it never built a plane.

It's a major parts supplier to Boeing, however, and has said it will not build bigger planes so as not to compete with Boeing. Boeing is returning the favor by helping with testing. Some time this year, 4 MRJ prototypes will somehow make their way to Moses Lake, WA, where Boeing will assist Mitsubishi with the plane's 2500 hours of testing. They got a challenge getting a 1700 nm range plane from Japan to Washington.

I've watched several test flights of the MRJ on YouTube and a few things stick out: 1) she's real quiet, 2) that plane just glides into the air, 3) the pilot windows are YUGE, as Trump would say, and 4) they never reverse thrust on landing. The telltale sign of engine cowlings sliding open doesn't happen, they just use brakes. Here's a recent video of a test flight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcS2II3Md_E

I really hope they can get a plane to Farnborough because they need the positive press. In the mean time, Japan has to work out travel through Russian airspace to get the MRJs to Washington, and apparently Japan and Russia aren't getting along right now.

Mitsubishi?s head-scratcher in quest to get jet to the U.S.?The Asahi Shimbun

Hope this helps.

Three developments: they put the second test bird in the air, they have begun building the smaller MRJ70, and they are shipping 4 test planes to Moses Lake next month.

Mitsubishi starts production of smaller MRJ test model - The Japan News

Mitsubishi Regional Jet to begin test flights in July- Nikkei Asian Review

Finally a smart decision on their part. If its true that deliveries of the 70 seat version will begin in 2019, that is very good news for trans states. But I'll believe it when they actually start showing up.

Perhaps more accurately, they never built an airliner. Mitsubishi built lots of military aircraft including the Zero. More recent examples are the MU-2, and the Hawker 400 is an evolution on the MU-300 Diamond.

I agree about the Japanese quality part. Well, except for airbags... :(

When will the regional airlines just tell the majors to go f themselves and just do the flying on their own, I mean with these jets they are almost getting to the national level as is it is...